Embedded chips in NY licenses track speeders

[snopes]

New York State started a pilot program upstate north of Albany on the
Northway to catch speeders using the Easy Pass system. Recording devices
were installed at intervals along the highway. Once an Easy Pass equipped
vehicle passes, the device registers the account number and the time. Same
is again registered at the next "check-point". Based upon the distance
between the register points and the posted speed limit, the state is
sending speeding tickets in the mail to the guilty persons.

Because every driver does not have Easy Pass, the State is "perplexed" as
what to do to impose the system state-wide. The solution has been found.
Soon all new vehicle registration stickers will have a metal strip or chip
imbedded in same. This will take the place of the Easy Pass system as
stated above. When a vehicle passes the registering device, the strip will
relay all the information.

This is not fictional. New York State contracted with VERIZON to install
the system. The system has already been installed and the entire Bronx
River Parkway in Westchester County has been "wired" for when the new
system begins. Once the State makes the new program public and advises all
motorists of the potential for numerous speeding tickets, it will also
reveal that the system has already been installed.

Another reason that will be given for the new system is to enable the
authorities to track stolen vehicles, to trace kidnap victims, to monitor
and trace suspected criminals and terrorists, etc.

BIG BROTHER IS ALIVE AND WELL.

Pass this along to every one you know.

Paul W. Meyer, Jr.
Attorney & Counselor at Law
(914) 961-3000
(914) 961-4993 Fax
paul@meyerjrlaw.com

[Lancastrian]

Originally Posted by snopes

New York State started a pilot program upstate north of Albany on the
Northway to catch speeders using the Easy Pass system. Recording devices
were installed at intervals along the highway. Once an Easy Pass equipped
vehicle passes, the device registers the account number and the time. Same
is again registered at the next "check-point". Based upon the distance
between the register points and the posted speed limit, the state is
sending speeding tickets in the mail to the guilty persons.

Damn them, they've gotten their hands on my high school math text book! Soon they'll be using trees' shadows to determine their height, and asking silly questions about trains! Curse our evil police forces.

[snopes]

If we were to take this seriously, wouldn't it cause problems when a speeding ticket was contested in court? The state would have no way of proving exactly when and where the defendant was speeding, nor how fast he was going at any given point or at any given time. All they could say is that the defendant's average speed indicated he must have exceeded the speed limit by some undetermined amount for some undetermined period of time at some undetermined stretch(es) of road between two points.

- snopes

[Eve MG]

Originally Posted by snopes

New York State started a pilot program upstate north of Albany on the Northway to catch speeders using the Easy Pass system. Recording devices were installed at intervals along the highway. Once an Easy Pass equipped vehicle passes, the device registers the account number and the time. Same is again registered at the next "check-point". Based upon the distance between the register points and the posted speed limit, the state is
sending speeding tickets in the mail to the guilty persons.

Wouldn't it have been easier to start with the toll portions of the Thruway and just compare the getting-on time with the getting-off time? There are no tolls on the Northway (which is I-87 North of Albany).

Also, I'd be surprised that they are doing this on the Northway, where they are just now putting in cell phone towers. (Although that's through Verizon too. Hmm, coincidence??)

ETA: Spanked by the ever-so-logical snopes. Oh, and if they want to "track stolen vehicles," then why don't they GET US LOJACK up here?!

[Dr. Dave]

Originally Posted by snopes

If we were to take this seriously, wouldn't it cause problems when a speeding ticket was contested in court? The state would have no way of proving exactly when and where the defendant was speeding, nor how fast he was going at any given point or at any given time. All they could say is that the defendant's average speed indicated he must have exceeded the speed limit by some undetermined amount for some undetermined period of time at some undetermined stretch(es) of road between two points.

- snopes

Ah, but snopes, we already have speed cameras, and here in Maryland they are treated as violations against the vehicle (liek a parking ticket) not the driver, so no points. That takes care of the proving that the accused was driving the car part. As for the proof of speeding, they need only put the two sensors over a short distance- say 50 yards. The state would not make a claim of the car's precise speed- say 75 mph versus 85 mph, but only that it exceeded 65 mph.

This is different (no photo, continuous surveillance) but technologically not a big stretch.

[snopes]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dave

As for the proof of speeding, they need only put the two sensors over a short distance- say 50 yards. The state would not make a claim of the car's precise speed- say 75 mph versus 85 mph, but only that it exceeded 65 mph.

Sure, but that's really no different than a speed camera, which does record a specific time, position, and speed. The posited system would use EZ Pass checkpoints, which are much farther apart.

- snopes

[Dr. Dave]

Originally Posted by snopes

Sure, but that's really no different than a speed camera, which does record a specific time, position, and speed. The posited system would use EZ Pass checkpoints, which are much farther apart.

- snopes

Ahh. My impression from the OP was that "they" would/had installed additional special devices for this.

Around here, there are roads where EZ pass is only collected once passing through, so one would have an infintesimaly small average speed, as the distance travelled would approach infinity.

Originally Posted by Dr. Dave

The state would not make a claim of the car's precise speed- say 75 mph versus 85 mph, but only that it exceeded 65 mph.

Is it possible to give someone a ticket without knowing their exact speed though? I mean, I have no knowledge of the law in that situation, but could they take you to court and successfully say that they do not know what your speed was, but they do know that it was greater than the speed limit?

And another thing--on every speeding ticket I've ever gotten the fine and number of points have been determined by the number of mph over the speed limit I was going. The first ticket I ever got I was going 2 over the speed limit and it was not nearly as expensive as the ticket as when I got caught going 26 over the speed limit. So with this system are we to assume that in a 65 speed limit zone someone going 135 mph would receive the same ticket and fine as someone going 70 mph, since the speed cannot be determined other than it is greater than the speed limit?

[Dr. Dave]

Originally Posted by Class Bravo

Is it possible to give someone a ticket without knowing their exact speed though? I mean, I have no knowledge of the law in that situation, but could they take you to court and successfully say that they do not know what your speed was, but they do know that it was greater than the speed limit?

And another thing--on every speeding ticket I've ever gotten the fine and number of points have been determined by the number of mph over the speed limit I was going. The first ticket I ever got I was going 2 over the speed limit and it was not nearly as expensive as the ticket as when I got caught going 26 over the speed limit. So with this system are we to assume that in a 65 speed limit zone someone going 135 mph would receive the same ticket and fine as someone going 70 mph, since the speed cannot be determined other than it is greater than the speed limit?

With the speed cameras used in Maryland, yes, it is all one fine. Also, since they cannot prove who was driving, there are no points and the registered owner of the vehicle is responsible for the fine. It is treated like a non-moving violation. This is different than if a police officer stops you, in which case the situation is as you describe.

I do not know if they can ticket you for exceeding th elimit without kowing the actual speed, but I suspect that they either can or that the legislation authorizing the cameras (or hypothetical sensors) could be written to allow this. In Maryland, the cameras trigger if the car is going 11 or more miles over the speefd limit.

[Eve MG]

New York State started a pilot program upstate north of Albany on the Northway to catch speeders using the Easy Pass system.

Heh. Haven't found anything else about this yet aside from other message boards discussing the same thing (and noting that it isn't on snopes yet! ). But one person pointed out that it's not "Easy Pass" anyway - it's E-Z Pass.

[Stan The Man]

The name and phone number in the OP appear to be legit. Of course, that doesn't mean that he's the one that actually initiated this.

Cite.

[KirkMcD]

The "getting a ticket by going between the tolls booths too quickly" has been a rumour for ages.

Now what they might be confusing the issue with is the installation of a traffic tracking system that uses the EZPass transponders to determine the speed of the traffic for display on status boards. http://www.newsday.com/news/local/tr...,1366068.story

Originally Posted by Dr. Dave

With the speed cameras used in Maryland, yes, it is all one fine. Also, since they cannot prove who was driving, there are no points and the registered owner of the vehicle is responsible for the fine. It is treated like a non-moving violation. This is different than if a police officer stops you, in which case the situation is as you describe.

The one added bit would be to link the computer that tracks the speed of the E-Z-Pass to the computers in the patrol cars so that they when a speeder is detected, they can send out a patrol officers to nab the evil speeder.

Note that in Brazil, they have these little chart recorders in cars that an officer can request to see at any time. He can then go back and look to see if you had been speeding. Our driver almost got arrested because his was malfunctioning.

[niner]

If they're really beginning to issue tickets based on the EZ pass (or I-Pass in Illinois) system, then it would have to be targeted primarily at serial speeders. As Snopes said, all you can do is calculate the average speed between two points - of course, if you were doing 80 between these two points, you'll show up as 80. The guy who goes 80 for a quarter of a mile to pass a line of cars and then slows back down to a reasonable speed will show up speeding much less, and may even be ticketed. That being said, they can still "rate" you - if you did 100mph over the stretch, they'll be able to calculate that.

The biggest thing that makes me doubt the OP is that based on my experiences in IL, these devices are highly sensitive and would not work well at all in your wallet. And of course, they can be defeated by simple foil (which is how the I-Pass is delivered to you, and how they recommend you "transport" one). There's no law keeping you from wrapping your license in foil; although this obviously won't help anyone who uses a real tollway device. I have my I-Pass mounted on the dash of my motorcycle (rather than hanging from the windshield) and occasionally it won't read and trips the camera. Luckily my vehicle is registered to the I-Pass, so I don't get an actual ticket.

HenryB

[Vendicare]

Well, let's just start telling everyone that the rumor is true, but you can stop the system from working if you put a strip of green duct tape in the middle right side of your license plate (it absorbs the signal or something), and see how long it takes before we see the green stuff show up!

[Dr. Dave]

Originally Posted by Vendicare

Well, let's just start telling everyone that the rumor is true, but you can stop the system from working if you put a strip of green duct tape in the middle right side of your license plate (it absorbs the signal or something), and see how long it takes before we see the green stuff show up!

Good plan, but pick a more obsure and specific color and a specific brand, buy up the supplies, and sell it on ebay.

[nonnieyrissa]

So lets say this was true and there is a Van with 7 passengers or even a bus with 37 passengers, all carrying a license, do they issue 7/37 speeding violations?

if you read this article you'll see a system that was setup here a couple of years back that works on the average speed over a good distance. It seems to be pretty successful as much as it's about saving lives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4681507.stm

I could probably find it with a little searching, but I recall reading that a California driver overturned a ticket in court by asking to face his accuser (which is a constitutional right) and that said accuser turned out to be some technician that had installed at calibrated a speed camera. Since all the documentation there was regarding the calibration was a check mark on a list, and the guy couldn't specifically remember calibrating that particular unit, they ended up throwing the ticket out.

Technically it is simple to determine the average speed between two points. Proving that the average speed is above the speed limit is adequate to prove the person during at least some portion of the drive. The technology is simple.

But establishing that on the particular day that a ticket was issued the system was working properly as a basis for legally issuing the ticket will face a lot of challenges, technically, administratively and legally.