Perpetual motion machine developed in Dublin, Ireland - resurrected

[TrekkerScout]

Here is an update concerning this archived thread.

Steorn announces plans for widespread deployment of its free energy technology post-validation

Either this is the biggest scientific hoax since cold fusion or the Law of Thermodynamics is about to be tossed out.

[diddy]

Originally Posted by TrekkerScout

Either this is the biggest scientific hoax since cold fusion or the Law of Thermodynamics is about to be tossed out.

I think we can assume that the former is true rather than the latter choice.

[TrekkerScout]

Steorn has reworked its website (past links no longer work) and has given its free-energy technology a name: ORBO.

[James G]

Well it appears that a public demo of the supposed machine is running into 'technical difficulties' Link

Hmm :: rubs chin :: I wonder what those may be, the laws of thermodynamics rearing their ugly head perhaps.

It seems that we've reached the end and will soon find out exactly what's behind all this. Either they are very misguided fools*, or we are close to the reveal of whatever company is running the viral.

* I don't think they are con-artists, as they close the company to investors etc.

[Canuckistan]

On this messageboard, we obey the laws of physics!

(With apologies to the writers of The Simpsons)

[ASL]

Originally Posted by TrekkerScout

Either this is the biggest scientific hoax since cold fusion or the Law of Thermodynamics is about to be tossed out.

Originally Posted by diddy

I think we can assume that the former is true rather than the latter choice.

I don't know... Just the other day I was working a heat transfer problem and got the wrong answer. "They" claimed it was a math error. I say it's because the 1st Law of Thermodynamics is all jacked up. Net heat transfer is equivelant to the net work plus the change in internal energy? My ass...

[Koshka]

A friend of mine just passed on a link to a Forbes article on free energy (and Steorn gets the first paragraph):
http://www.forbes.com/technology/200...invention.html

[TrekkerScout]

Steorn's official press release on the "technical difficulties"

[snopes]

Steorn's findings totally undermine the basic premise of materialism, simply by demonstrating a confirmed physical effect that materialists predict cannot happen. These clever Irish researchers have demonstrated that the principles of thermodynamics function in a manner far closer to the predictions of William Dembski and William Brookfield than the clearly flawed thermodynamic claims of Hawkings and Maxwell.

http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/oe/node/314

Originally Posted by TrekkerScout

Either this is the biggest scientific hoax since cold fusion or the Law of Thermodynamics is about to be tossed out.

I would put big money on the first choice......

[James G]

But I thought the laws of thermodynamics disproved evolution! (To be fair this individual may never have tried that train-wreck of an argument)

The argument is completely ridiculous of course.

1. Mainstream science relies on materialism, by its very definition science is empirical, besides thats not really what they are arguing against is it. They just don't want to admit that ID isn't science.

2. Its a bit early isn't it? Lets wait until Steron can give proof of their achievements first, otherwise someone is going to end up with egg on their face.

3. It shows a severe misunderstanding of science. If Steorn do pull through and demonstrate that they have indeed blown the doors of physics right open, then scientists will do what we have always done. Dust ourselves off, pick through the wreckage, and try again. The scientific method won't falter, there won't be any crisis of faith, we'll just keep on plugging until we have a model that works. And to do this we'll use the same methods of empirical observation, hypothesis forming, testing and adapting that we have always used. I have yet to see any scientist who claims that this is a 100% imposibility, but merely a 99.99999999999% imposibility (With perhaps a few more 9's). However there are plenty of alternatives which are vastly more likely.

Oh and incidently I would like nothing more than Steorn to be completely and utterly, fantastically and mind-blowingly right. Not only would it solve the worlds energy problems, make cheap energy etc. But the sudden disruption in physics would be genuinely exciting (although perhaps a bit beyond the ken of this lowly biologist. I still can't fathom wave particle duality without my brain melting.) I'd also like to win the lottery. Guess where my odds are higher (and I don't even buy a ticket).

ETA: Sorry, I just had to add this:

Basically the 2nd law states that the amount of chaos (evil) in the universe can only increase; It's basically another way of formulating the creed of nihilsm.

Doesn't that make the alignment 'lawful evil' an oxymornon?

[snopes]

Originally Posted by James G

I would like nothing more than Steorn to be completely and utterly, fantastically and mind-blowingly right. Not only would it solve the worlds energy problems, make cheap energy etc.

Only for as long as it takes the oil companies to buy up the patent.

- snopes

[James G]

Originally Posted by snopes

Only for as long as it takes the oil companies to buy up the patent.

- snopes

But even if that happens said oil company will just begin using the technology to gain ground over the competition. Plus I can't help thinking with a patent that valuble that Steron would hold onto it as they'd be able to make more money through licensing it than in a single sale.Besides patents are only valid for 20 years (In the UK at least, although I'm assuming its fairly standardized) and there are also technical difficulties in patenting a perpetual motion machine (Although I'm sure they'd be ironed out if one were ever actually made).

Originally Posted by James G

But I thought the laws of thermodynamics disproved evolution!

I remember reading that argument in a "science" book I found in our library. And it does make sense....if the Earth were a closed system (hint: it isn't).

[Silas Sparkhammer]

Originally Posted by Doug4.7

I remember reading that argument in a "science" book I found in our library. And it does make sense....if the Earth were a closed system (hint: it isn't).

As an interesting physics side-light, you could also get a similar effect from a "semi-open" system. Imagine that there were no sun, moon, planets, or stars, but just a planet with internal heat. The heat only goes one way -- outward into empty space. The planet isn't "closed," exactly. But the heat flows through any given shell of that planet, most notably from the ground up into the air -- and so the surface of the planet is a fully open system.

And, of course, life can evolve around deep-sea volcanic vents, exactly exemplifying this effect!

Silas

[Silas Sparkhammer]

I was walking home tonight, and overheard two of my neighbors chatting. One said: "I have never understood why no one has created a perpetual motion machine. It's real easyto do!"

My mind is still boggled.

Silas

[ganzfeld]

Originally Posted by Doug4.7

I remember reading that argument in a "science" book I found in our library. And it does make sense....if the Earth were a closed system (hint: it isn't).

You got the right answer for an incomplete reason: If your argument were correct then life couldn't have evolved in the universe, which is presumably a closed system. As Silas points out, there can be life in closed systems, such as closed planets, as well. But the argument itself represents a misunderstanding of thermodynamics, as described in detail in this article:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/entropy.html
The laws of thermodynamics don't preclude the development of order, such as the order found in a solar system, or a river, or an oak tree, or a person. The "order" and "disorder" of thermodynamics doesn't really directly address the order of objects and molecules per se. (On the other hand, insofar as it does address such things, some have proposed that the development of life represents an ordinary case of entropy increasing.)

[ASL]

Originally Posted by ganzfeld

You got the right answer for an incomplete reason: If your argument were correct then life couldn't have evolved in the universe, which is presumably a closed system.

A closed system, or an isolated system?

[Silas Sparkhammer]

Originally Posted by ASL

A closed system, or an isolated system?

The universe? It depends on whether or not there are "other universes." The "expansionary phase" refinement of the Big Bang suggests that our "universe" is only a small region of a much larger entity; the "daughter universes" notion, where singularities are seen as possible seeds of new Big Bangs also puts our universe in a kind of contact with others.

If, however, you view the universe as a four-dimensional sphere with "no outside," then it would be a closed system and an isolated one -- wouldn't it?

Silas

[diddy]

Originally Posted by James G

But even if that happens said oil company will just begin using the technology to gain ground over the competition. Plus I can't help thinking with a patent that valuble that Steron would hold onto it as they'd be able to make more money through licensing it than in a single sale.Besides patents are only valid for 20 years (In the UK at least, although I'm assuming its fairly standardized) and there are also technical difficulties in patenting a perpetual motion machine (Although I'm sure they'd be ironed out if one were ever actually made).

I think Snopes was being sarcastic.

Originally Posted by TrekkerScout

Steorn's official press release on the "technical difficulties"

Difficulties. Now why am I not surprised?