Horses: Mixed Breeds = Mixed Colors

[Morrigan]

What I'm talking about is this: my gray mare (black turned gray, with a black to gray dam and a chestnut sire) had a chestnut foal (to a chestnut stallion, with chestnut parents). The foal had three white stockings, but the fourth (on her right front) was a roaned stocking-which with equal mix of chestnut.

I was told that it was because she was a mixed breed (her dam was a half-Saddlebred/half-Arabian while her sire was a purebred Saddlebred.) I don't see how that works-because of how horse color genetics work.

Was there any truth to that? Has anyone else heard that type of stuff before?

Morrigan

[chocolate kisses]

I took horse color/genetics classes a looong time ago but unfortunately, I've forgotten everything and can't answer your questions. I believe chestnuts fade to roan? I would love to see pics of the horses, though.

[Morrigan]

No, chestnuts don't fade to roan.

There's no roan gene in her background. The closest thing was her dam being a gray-but she wasn't going gray (I had her for two years.) It was just her leg that had the roaning, and I'm not sure why it happened!

If you want to see a picture of the dam, it's my gray mare in this thread: http://message.snopes.com/showpost.p...99&postcount=6

In the bottom picture, the foal is the one on her left. (And it's her left front leg.) You can kind of see the different color-and it's not because of dirt.

Morrigan

[chocolate kisses]

See? It's been a long time since I studied horse color. Beautiful girls. Maybe the milkman is the chestnut foal's father?! That's what we told my blonde brother in a family of brunettes.

I am keeping an eye on this thread because now I'm curious, too.

[Morrigan]

Nope, her sire was a chestnut stallion (now gelding.) Her parents were half brother and half sister...so, that might have something to do with it. Maybe...

According to the owner at the time, only one of the sire's testicles had dropped, and supposedly the vet told her that he couldn't breed with just one. So she kept him in a pasture with three other mares, getting them all pregnant. It was my mare (not at the time-I bought her after she'd foaled), my mare's dam and another Arabian mare. (It was also that pasture that's in the second picture. Now, all of the horses are at different farms, thankfully.)

I know more about dogs than I do horses-I can recite exactly what colors Shelties will come in if you breed this color to that color, but ask me about horses...

Morrigan

[geminilee]

Originally Posted by Morrigan

According to the owner at the time, only one of the sire's testicles had dropped, and supposedly the vet told her that he couldn't breed with just one.

Perhaps the vet told her that she shouldn't attempt to breed him, as it would be less likely to be successful with only one testicle, and she misunderstood it to mean he would be sterile with just one?

[Morrigan]

Originally Posted by geminilee

Perhaps the vet told her that she shouldn't attempt to breed him, as it would be less likely to be successful with only one testicle, and she misunderstood it to mean he would be sterile with just one?

That's what I'm guessing. The old owner wasn't very horse-smart (reguarding everything from feeding, to breeding, to shots...) She's a person who never should have had animals (and due to a court order, can never have them again.)

Morrigan

[Seraphina]

Undescended testicles can cause problems, they are more likely to become cancerous as well as cause other difficulties. The undescended testicle becomes sterile, as inside the body the temperature is too high for sperm. While one testicle is enough for the animal to be fertile it is not advisable to breed from him as it is hereditary.

I would imagine that was the reason why the vet would have advised not to use him for breeding.

[llewtrah]

The roan stocking might be a somatic mutation rather than inherited. There used to be a grey racehorse over here called Flying Phantom because half his face was roan. It was just a somatic mutation that cause a coloured patch. It was not inherited from either parent nor could it be passed on because the mutation affected a patch of body tissue during embryo development and not the germ-line.

Re monorchidism/cryptorchidism - in cats it is recommended not to breed from monorchids or from males whose testicles descend abnormally late. Although they may be fertile, there is believed to be a genetic component to this abnormality and it is a disqualification trait in showcats (except neuters of course).

A believe the same applies to show dogs hence the UL of the prize-winning young dog getting silicone implants in the scrotum when its own failed to descend when the dog was adult. The owner was caught out when the dog's testicles descended and the judge found 4 testicles in the scrotum during judging.

[Morrigan]

llewtrah-it is the same in dogs. I've heard the story applied to a Doberman, who ended up having 3 testicles. (UL, maybe based on truth.)

Thanks for the info about the mutation-I've never heard of that. It does make sense, also.

I'm guessing that the owner didn't listen to the vet or didn't ask him "why." Probably both. Luckily for herself and the horse, he was gelded before he bred again. (Although, he never should have been bred in the first place.)

Morrigan

[Seraphina]

Originally Posted by Morrigan

llewtrah-it is the same in dogs. I've heard the story applied to a Doberman, who ended up having 3 testicles. (UL, maybe based on truth.)
Morrigan

LOL, maybe there is some truth in that story, but I have heard it for the first time some 50 years ago

[DawnStorm]

A cyber buddy of mine on a horse racing board can tell you everything you need to know about horse color genetics. Morrigan, if you want, I can post the OP on that site so she can see it. Or I can provide the link to this site.

[Morrigan]

That would be great, DawnStorm! (Either option works for me!)

Thanks!

Morrigan

[Morrigan]

For any still interested readers, the consensus is: she's a sabino (a type of paint/pinto.) American Saddlebreds can come in any color variation of pinto (paints are thoroughbred, paint or quarter horse), so it's likely that her sire was a minimally marked sabino. He had high stockings and a blaze, both of which point to sabino.

http://www.winridgegoldengaits.com/Sales.html

Go down to the horse "WinRidge Ambertown's Honey" for a minimally marked Sabino American Saddlebred. "WinRidge Bode's Lady Nike" is also another example-only that mare is one that's marked almost identical to the sire of the filly.

Thanks, DawnStorm!

Morrigan