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  #1  
Old 21 September 2007, 01:26 PM
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Glasses Apple Cider Vinegar helps with weight loss?

I'm a member on SparkPeople, which is a weight loss support website. There's message boards there as well, for peer support and tips and sharing stories and whatnot. Well, one member posted a thread about apple cider:
Quote:
I heard about apple cider vinegar helps with weight loss.I tried it and it does.It helps you burn more calories when you work out and also with fatigue and cleans too.Just add two table spoons to your glass of water every morning and it should be the unpasteurized apple cider vinegar.
This made the little warning lights in my head go off.

So I've been doing some Internet research, and did find a few sites that say no, it doesn't work. But what I'm interested in are the sites that are claiming it to work, through what biological mechanism would a highly acidic substance make you burn more calories? Has anyone heard of this before?
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Old 21 September 2007, 01:36 PM
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I'm really not one to automatically dismiss all new dietary ideas with the eyeroll and "of COURSE it MUST be bunk" because I think we actually don't know crap, as evidenced by the way that health science reverses it's position on everything every few years, but this one? Yeah...I don't see how acidic or alkaline could make much difference in the energy in/energy out equation. It could possibly have some beneficial effects on things like acid stomach or reflux, maybe, *shrug* but honestly, the only thing that has ever helped me lose weight is...eating less. I guess excercise would work if I would do it. But I'm lazy.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:15 PM
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Is there any kind of cider that's not made out of apples? Isn't that the very definition of cider.

Oh and this ones been turning up in my spam box since the mid 1990's. I don't know in there's any basis in fact, but I suspect if there was, there would have been a hint of a mention of it on all those fluffy daytime TV shows that feature nothing but dieting, fashion and makeup tips.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:16 PM
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Cherry cider is a big seller at the Cherry Festival in High Rolls Mountain Park, New Mexico, every fall.

I know there is nothing at that Cherry Festival that is particularly conducive to weight loss, though.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:19 PM
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I did a Pubmed search and found a couple studies that looked at Cider Vinegar and weight loss.
The effect of cider vinegar on some nutritional and physiological parameters in mice.

Strategies for Healthy Weight Loss: From Vitamin C to the Glycemic Response
This links to the full article not just the abstract. It's a review article that links to several other studies. They say as a weight loss aid vinegar -
Quote:
reduce postprandial glycemia and to enhance satiety
There might be something to it but I think there needs to be more studies.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snapdragonfly View Post
Cherry cider is a big seller at the Cherry Festival in High Rolls Mountain Park, New Mexico, every fall.

I know there is nothing at that Cherry Festival that is particularly conducive to weight loss, though.
Is that cider flavoured with cherries, or is it a drink made out of fermented cherry juice? If it's the second it isn't cider.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddylizard View Post
Is that cider flavoured with cherries, or is it a drink made out of fermented cherry juice? If it's the second it isn't cider.
It's made from fermented cherry juice. Why wouldn't it be cider?
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snapdragonfly View Post
It's made from fermented cherry juice. Why wouldn't it be cider?
Because, as EddyLizard pointed out, cider is by definition made from apples.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:34 PM
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Disclaimer: I have not looked into this claim, I am just giving some general information:

1. In theory, a change in the acid-base balance could affect how the muscles metabolize glucose. This recipe would probably not have enough of a change though. (see 3)

2. Provision of an acid solution helps prevent muscle fatigue and cramps while working out. It is usually a mild acid- Gtorade for example has citric acid and water, sugar, and minerals. Ther was a kick (might still be in) a few years ago about professional athletes drinking pickle juice (brine)- that would contain acetic acid (vinegar) plus some minerals, too.

3. Would this actual recipe work? Vinegar is 5% acid. Two tablespoons = 1 ounce, so in an 8 ounce glass of water, maybe the same acidity as a sports drink. So one could say that it is a way to get that before a workout without the added calories of a sports drink, but the glucose is needed for the workout.. One could probably get the same from any vinegar though in any case.

4. The claim that it must be unpasturized defies biologic plausibility. It is similar to other claims that overall seem to have plausibility, but then there is an added requirement that does not.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snapdragonfly View Post
It's made from fermented cherry juice. Why wouldn't it be cider?
Because by definition, cider is made from apples. If it's made out of cherry juice it's cherry wine.

ETA Spanked by Floater.
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  #11  
Old 21 September 2007, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddylizard View Post
Is there any kind of cider that's not made out of apples? Isn't that the very definition of cider.
There's perry. I've heard that referred to as "pear cider".

Or white cider (diamond white, ace etc.) which has nothing to do with apples, the alcoholic content resulting from glucose.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:37 PM
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Cider is made from apples, period.
Fermented pear is peary (for instance)
I'm not finding a specific word for cherry but I bet it's really Cherry Wine.
Perhaps there is some legal deal to the name because of alcohol content. If they make the "cherry cider" at an alcohol content closer to beer and most commerical ciders (around 5%) rather than wine (12% to 18% or so) then the term is a little more useful.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aud 1 View Post
I did a Pubmed search and found a couple studies that looked at Cider Vinegar and weight loss.
The effect of cider vinegar on some nutritional and physiological parameters in mice.

Strategies for Healthy Weight Loss: From Vitamin C to the Glycemic Response
This links to the full article not just the abstract. It's a review article that links to several other studies. They say as a weight loss aid vinegar -


There might be something to it but I think there needs to be more studies.

Okay, that's the type of thing I was looking for Thanks for that, Aud.

From what I can understand of the article (I think we need Dr. TGirl to interpret some of this biology jargon...I've only gone through Bio 103 ), it doesn't seem like the vinegar is a huge boon for burning more calories or anything, and it seems to focus more on Vitamin C in general. It does sound like the vinegar may increase the feeling of satiety from a meal though...interesting... I'm going to have to keep reading through this article.

I just hope I didn't come off as too condescending when I replied on Spark...I tried to be nice about it, but I couldn't help but ask her if she did research on this claim. I really had to keep myself from just responding "cite?" I'm spoiled by the ULMB!
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:39 PM
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Thanks to Dr. Dave for the info too! I'm eager to see if she responds today...
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  #15  
Old 21 September 2007, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart View Post
There's perry. I've heard that referred to as "pear cider".

Or white cider (diamond white, ace etc.) which has nothing to do with apples, the alcoholic content resulting from glucose.
Heretic! Burn him!
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  #16  
Old 21 September 2007, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aud 1 View Post
Cider is made from apples, period.
Fermented pear is peary (for instance)
I'm not finding a specific word for cherry but I bet it's really Cherry Wine.
Perhaps there is some legal deal to the name because of alcohol content. If they make the "cherry cider" at an alcohol content closer to beer and most commerical ciders (around 5%) rather than wine (12% to 18% or so) then the term is a little more useful.
I've had non-alcoholic cherry cider, so I don't think it's necessarily cherry wine, no.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aud 1 View Post
Cider is made from apples, period.
Fermented pear is peary (for instance)
I'm not finding a specific word for cherry but I bet it's really Cherry Wine.
Perhaps there is some legal deal to the name because of alcohol content. If they make the "cherry cider" at an alcohol content closer to beer and most commerical ciders (around 5%) rather than wine (12% to 18% or so) then the term is a little more useful.
It isn't any kind of wine I've ever had.

It's murky and is just exactly like unfiltered apple cider, (which they also sell up there) except it's cherries. It's not aged in casks in any fancy method. It's just in plastic jugs, and if it sits out a while it turns into vinegar.

Dictionary.com gives 6 definitions:

ci·der /ˈsaɪdər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sahy-der] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun the juice pressed from apples (or formerly from some other fruit) used for drinking, either before fermentation (sweet cider) or after fermentation (hard cider), or for making applejack, vinegar, etc.

Also, British, cyder.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1250–1300; ME sidre < MF < OF si(s)dre < LL sīcera strong drink < Septuagint Gk skera < Heb shékhār (Levit. 10:9); r. ME sithere < OF sidre]

—Related forms
ci·der·ish, ci·der·like, adjective
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This ci·der (sī'dər) Pronunciation Key
n. The juice pressed from fruits, especially apples, used as a beverage or to make other products, such as vinegar.


[Middle English sidre, from Old French, from Late Latin sīcera, intoxicating drink, from Greek sikera, of Semitic origin; see škr in Semitic roots.]


(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
cider

c.1280, from O.Fr. sidre, var. of sisdre, from L.L. sicera, Vulgate rendition of Heb. shekhar, word used for any strong drink (translated in O.E. as beor). Meaning gradually narrowed to mean exclusively "fermented drink made from apples," though this sense was present in O.Fr.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This cider

noun
a beverage made from juice pressed from apples

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.



Apparently it did not always refer to only apples but apparently came to be understood as apples. Which means that it's not hard and fast that it's only apples, it's a preference, yes, but I think an exageration to claim that calling use of any other fruit is an out and out impossibility "by definition." Because there are multiple definitions. So no, it's not from "apples, period." Not according to every dictionary definition.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:57 PM
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Over here, cider only refers to alcohol, according to that definition you can have non-alcoholic cider.
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Old 21 September 2007, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitap View Post
I've had non-alcoholic cherry cider, so I don't think it's necessarily cherry wine, no.
That would be cherry juice you had then. Unless it had been fermented, then de-alcoholised, in which case it would be alcohol free cherry wine.

Unfermented apple juice is 'apple juice'.
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  #20  
Old 21 September 2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddylizard View Post
That would be cherry juice you had then.
Here cider is usually non-alcoholic.
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