In Race to Find Water, It's Science vs. 'Witchers'

[snopes]

Because their investments could flop without a water source, developers building luxury resorts, orchards and wineries off the water grid aren't taking any chances. Some are hiring witchers as well as geologists, pitting them against each other in the water hunt. Meanwhile, some well drillers have witchers on staff. Other drillers offer witcher referrals or subcontract with independent witchers.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article...f_main_tff_top

[qualli]

while I can do this, I'm not quite convinced that I'm not just a bit crazy. If you can do it, you can actually feel the forked branch "wring" in your hands when you get to the right spot.

So far no one's scientificly proven it.

[Jay Tea]

Originally Posted by qualli

while I can do this, I'm not quite convinced that I'm not just a bit crazy. If you can do it, you can actually feel the forked branch "wring" in your hands when you get to the right spot.

So far no one's scientificly proven it.

Heh, laughable buffonery or costly fraud? Either way, it doesn't work, but if it only costs a fraction of what a hydrogeological prognosis will - who am I to argue.

[VeebleFetzer]

Originally Posted by Jay Tea

Heh, laughable buffonery or costly fraud? Either way, it doesn't work, but if it only costs a fraction of what a hydrogeological prognosis will - who am I to argue.

Because it's the drilling that costs the real money, not the survey.

The island of Jersey is short of water, but they couldn't get water conservation measures passed because some members of the island's parliament preferred to believe a water diviner who claimed there were large rivers below the sea bed bringing fresh water from the continent. They spent £70,000 drilling boreholes to prove that there were (as the geologists had said) no rivers, and that the only water the island had was what fell as rain.

It's true that no-one has ever proved divining scientifically – every scientific test has shown it's as accurate as uninformed guesswork.

Slightlyt OT...

I know Derren Brown gets a lot of love on this board, here's a clip from 'Trick of the Mind' featuring dowsing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQSUTSc8oB0

HT

Originally Posted by qualli

while I can do this, I'm not quite convinced that I'm not just a bit crazy. If you can do it, you can actually feel the forked branch "wring" in your hands when you get to the right spot.

So far no one's scientificly proven it.

Water diviners have proven it doesn't work on many, many, many, many separate occasions.

[Jay Tea]

Originally Posted by VeebleFetzer

Because it's the drilling that costs the real money, not the survey.

The island of Jersey is short of water, but they couldn't get water conservation measures passed because some members of the island's parliament preferred to believe a water diviner who claimed there were large rivers below the sea bed bringing fresh water from the continent. They spent £70,000 drilling boreholes to prove that there were (as the geologists had said) no rivers, and that the only water the island had was what fell as rain.

It's true that no-one has ever proved divining scientifically – every scientific test has shown it's as accurate as uninformed guesswork.

You pay the driller one way or t'other, not that anybody in the Well Drillers Association would take a dowser seriously, but they will take your money if you insist they sink a 10 grand hole where a stick told you too. I had a bloke on the phone this morning who bored for water on 'local' advice - driller charged him 3 grand for 60 metres - he said it was the most expensive dust he ever saw

[DemonWolf]

Originally Posted by qualli

So far no one's scientificly proven it.

The reason that it has not been scientifically proven is because it has been repeatedly scientifically disproven.

[jw]

Richard Dawkins on dowsing, from "The enemies of reason" series, including the denials at the end.

[diddy]

Originally Posted by qualli

So far no one's scientificly proven it.

But the scientists aren't the ones making the claim that it works. Its the douser's who are responsible for proving that it works and so it is their responsibility to prove it. Not surprising they never can and all they do is come up for half-assed excuses why it doesn't work - even when they set up upon an agreed upon set of tests.

Scientists have tested Dousing - it doesn't work and they have shown that repeatedly that there is no science. It is equivalent to guesswork. I probably could find water just as good as they can without a diving rod. Of course I am not going to waste my time on it.

Communities looking for waters consistently deny science for the mystical and waste thousands in the process and never find anything.

[qualli]

Hey, I admitted I might be slightly mad. I'm perfectly willing to admit it's nonsense. But it's still creepy to feel it.

See the reason it works so well here, is that practicly anywhere you dig, you'll hit water.

I know someone with a 100% accuracy.... on farms and such of course. Digging smaller drinking wells.

[geminilee]

I could do it where I am and be assured of 100% accuracy. Dig deep enough anywhere and you hit water here.

[Skeptic]

Originally Posted by DemonWolf

The reason that it has not been scientifically proven is because it has been repeatedly scientifically disproven.

It is one of the most commonly tested supernatural claims. Test are common everywhere, but especially in Australia and India, where, not surprisingly, they need water baldly.
Failure is guaranteed.

[Delta-V]

I always suspected that 'sucessful' witchers were good at picking up clues to subsurface water...vegetation changes, soil changes, etc. Either that or they go to the county offices and look up the water table survey...

Originally Posted by Delta-V

I always suspected that 'sucessful' witchers were good at picking up clues to subsurface water...vegetation changes, soil changes, etc. Either that or they go to the county offices and look up the water table survey...

I think it's more the 'sucessful' witchers have a great ability to forget every time they weren't 'sucessful'. When you have a very selective memory anything becomes possible.

[lynnejanet]

Originally Posted by qualli

while I can do this, I'm not quite convinced that I'm not just a bit crazy. If you can do it, you can actually feel the forked branch "wring" in your hands when you get to the right spot.

My husband is the same way, qualli. He says he can't explain it and is a little creeped out by it. He really doesn't like to talk about it because he doesn't know how to defend it. All he knows is that someone showed him once, and it worked.

Not all members of the "Well driller's Association" (is that real?) are skeptical. As I've mentioned before, my parents hired a dowser, recommended by the driller, after 3 other wells had all gone dry, and he found and artesian spring. Very deep, but very much there.

[Jay Tea]

Originally Posted by lynnejanet

Not all members of the "Well driller's Association" (is that real?) are skeptical. As I've mentioned before, my parents hired a dowser, recommended by the driller, after 3 other wells had all gone dry, and he found and artesian spring. Very deep, but very much there.

Yes it's a British Organisation, and very scientific, they won't be recommending any dowsers because they don't find water and well, if they don't drillers will really struggle to make a living. As has been oft mentioned, when they do find water it's usually local and over well established aquifers, but without knowledge of the strata and surrounding geology you'll still be guessing about yield and strike depth, and even water quality.

http://welldrillers.org.uk/

An essential part of being successful in pseudoscience is to be able to ignore your failures and make your client concentrate only on your successes.

And such is the problem,when any of those quacks manage to get a hit(through sheer luck), they will show it around as proof that divining works,but you have to calculate their previous misses to see it all adds up at best to educated guesses. You might as well hire a drunkard and tell him to mark the spot,he'll the same odds of finding water as any dowsers.

[1958Fury]

Originally Posted by qualli

Hey, I admitted I might be slightly mad. I'm perfectly willing to admit it's nonsense. But it's still creepy to feel it.

The Straight Dope refers to it as "ideomotor action".

I can't find it now on the internet, but I remember reading a "Study" where they took dousers and gave "hints" as to where the water was, and the dousers found it every time. When they didn't give them hints, it was a total hit & miss.