Lincoln May Have Had Facial Defect

[snopes]

Artists, sculptors and photographers knew Abraham Lincoln's face had a good side. Now it's confirmed by science. Laser scans of two life masks, made from plaster casts of Lincoln's face, reveal the 16th president's unusual degree of facial asymmetry.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...TAM&SECTION=US

[We'veBeenHad]

He was, by all accounts I've read, a very humble man. If he overcame such a difficulty when there was no treatment, I admire him more

[Johnny Slick]

Lincoln's contemporaries noted his left eye at times drifted upward independently of his right eye, a condition now termed strabismus. Lincoln's smaller left eye socket may have displaced a muscle controlling vertical movement, said Dr. Ronald Fishman, who led the study published in the August issue of the Archives of Ophthalmology.

Wow. Talk about somebody who would never get elected President today (not saying anything against people with strabismus; unfortunately, physical appearance does play a pretty big role, unconscious or no, in electing today's politicians).

[snopes]

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick

Wow. Talk about somebody who would never get elected President today (not saying anything against people with strabismus; unfortunately, physical appearance does play a pretty big role, unconscious or no, in electing today's politicians).

Indeed, many members of Lincoln's own party did not know what he looked like until after they nominated him as their presidential candidate (and were later shocked at his appearance).

- snopes

[TB Tabby]

This doesn't surprise me that much. It's not like it was a secret that Lincoln wasn't the handsomest fellow in politics. One of Stephen Douglas' campaign songs had these words:

Tell us any lie you want to,
In any kind of mixture,
But we pray you, God we pray you,
Don't show us his picture.

[Ali Infree]

It does say something about our shallowness as a people, doesn't it? The sort of life that Lincoln led--moving a couple of times, losing his mother, a beloved female friend, etc. shaped him in so many ways. So, different from today's politicians who started climbing a ladder of success as soon as they were able.

I saw a bit of a film on public TV about Sam Cooke. Here was this handsome, talented man. Now, he would be a polished choreographed dancer with a huge entourage at all times. We expect polish and completeness from our entertainers and our political leaders. What we don't often get is character, depth of understanding, and humility.

Ali "I am the Greatest" Infree

[Magdalene]

Am I the only one who looks at the photos of Lincoln and wonders about the 'ugly' tag?

I mean, I look at this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...coln_young.jpg ....and his facial features are actually quite similar to my father's, who has been described all his life as 'handsome'.

In my opinion, Lincoln doesn't really start to look 'bad' until he grew the beard and got much older.

Maybe that's just me?

Magdalene

[Lainie]

[/url]

Originally Posted by Magdalene

Am I the only one who looks at the photos of Lincoln and wonders about the 'ugly' tag?

Some of that may also have to do with the increased resolution of photography later in Lincoln's life. And you'll notice that the photo you linked to shows Lincoln's right profile.

There's also the question of different standards of attractiveness at different times. I think that in Lincoln's day, men with more delicate features were considered more attractive than men with rugged features.

ETA: For reference, here's a photo of a man considered exceptionally handsome during Lincoln's lifetime."]

[Magdalene]

Originally Posted by Lainie

[/url]

Some of that may also have to do with the increased resolution of photography later in Lincoln's life. And you'll notice that the photo you linked to shows Lincoln's right profile.

There's also the question of different standards of attractiveness at different times. I think that in Lincoln's day, men with more delicate features were considered more attractive than men with rugged features.

ETA: For reference, here's a photo of a man considered exceptionally handsome during Lincoln's lifetime."]

*grin* Sorry--I was looking at a wikipedia page of Lincoln, and I probably should have linked some full-face photos that I thought he didn't really look bad in.

In fact, by and large, I don't think he looked all that bad until the beard. It does somehow seem to emphasize the facial flaws instead of hiding them.

You could be right about the 'beauty standards'--one of the remarks my dad gets is "except for the fair Irish skin, he looks like he could have stepped right of an Indian (Native American) settlement"....we consider those features attractive now, but in Lincoln's time, when Indians were considered savages....those features probably weren't admired much.

Magdalene

ETA: Good point about Booth being considered handsome for that time. To me, he looks rather plain.

[Lainie]

FWIW, I agree that Lincoln was attractive. And Booth's style of looks doesn't appeal to me at all.

Of course, my assessment of the attractiveness of both men is probably colored by my opinion of them. Even before he murdered Lincoln, JWB was a nasty, small-souled, cowardly, arrogant creep.

[Syllavus]

Abe Lincoln reminds me quite a bit of Lance Henriksen, whom I don't find unattractive either. Different looking perhaps and not traditionally "handsome" but not unattractive.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by Syllavus

Abe Lincoln reminds me quite a bit of Lance Henriksen, whom I don't find unattractive either. Different looking perhaps and not traditionally "handsome" but not unattractive.

Didn't he play Lincoln once? The height's not right, but the face is.

And to say that I don't find Lance Henriksen unattractive would be an understatement.

[Syllavus]

Originally Posted by Lainie

Didn't he play Lincoln once? The height's not right, but the face is.

And to say that I don't find Lance Henriksen unattractive would be an understatement.

Well I'll be, I guess he did! I'd make a great casting director.

[ElectricBarbarella]

FWIW, I didn't find Kennedy all that attractive, nor Clinton or Bush..But I find Lincoln, Teddy and a few others quite handsome. In fact, I'll go so far as to say Former Gov.Jeb Bush is much more attractive than his brother.

And I admit to my weirdness, but I think some type of "deformity" like this proves that men like Lincoln are human, which makes me more attracted to them as politicians, than I would be to someone who has "stunning good looks"... it's almost as if I trust "ugly" more than "good looking" (if that makes sense--because Lincoln was not ugly, IMHO)...

toni

[Gayle]

Isn't this also during the time when your attributes were believed to shape your looks? Of course we know that certain conditions and diseases will affect the shape of your features and also affect intelligence. But when you read popular fiction of the era, there seems to be a great emphasis on foreheads and eye spacing and how ears and necks and hands are featured. And that those physical traits meant you were smart or honest or miserly. As though the physical traits outside were caused by inner traits.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by ElectricBarbarella

FWIW, I didn't find Kennedy all that attractive. . .

JFK's illnesses, and the steroids he took for them, ruined his looks, IMO. His face was very, very puffy.

[ElectricBarbarella]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Isn't this also during the time when your attributes were believed to shape your looks? Of course we know that certain conditions and diseases will affect the shape of your features and also affect intelligence. But when you read popular fiction of the era, there seems to be a great emphasis on foreheads and eye spacing and how ears and necks and hands are featured. And that those physical traits meant you were smart or honest or miserly. As though the physical traits outside were caused by inner traits.

And if I could find the link--all of those things were basis for early forensic tools--very primitive form of Profiling. Yes, all of those things "meant something" ---you know "Don't trust the uni-brow!" sort of thing.

And Lainie--I did not know he was that ill. I knew he had some maladies, but nothing as badly to change the appearance enough...

toni

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by ElectricBarbarella

And Lainie--I did not know he was that ill. I knew he had some maladies, but nothing as badly to change the appearance enough...

toni

It wasn't so much the health problems themselves as the years of cortisone treatment. It gives a "moon face" appearance.

It's more obvious in some pictures than others. On this Wikipedia page, compare the top photo of JFK as president with the B&W photo of him during WWII.

[Syllavus]

Sort of off-topic but my boss just mentioned something to me about Abraham Lincoln possibly having illegitimate children with his slaves? She said that she heard it in the news two or so years ago and that it was a really big deal. However I just tried googling for information and turned up with nothing. The only hits I got with "abraham lincoln" and "illegitimate" were about rumors of his own illegitimacy. I'm just wondering if my boss is remembering wrong.

[Not_Done_Living]

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick

Wow. Talk about somebody who would never get elected President today (not saying anything against people with strabismus; unfortunately, physical appearance does play a pretty big role, unconscious or no, in electing today's politicians).

Well, there was Canada's Jean Chretien, who's left side of his face was paralyzed. (I think there was quite a kerfluffle when some American commentator pointed to him and said Americans would never even think to elect a person who looked like that.. or some other just as equally tasteless comment on his condition)..