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  #1  
Old 18 July 2007, 02:41 AM
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Squishy0405 Squishy0405 is offline
 
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Default "Creative" Punishment

this is so damn creative!
Looks like Mama is going to make him stand out there for a long time!
Ought to be a pretty good lesson, one not easily forgotten! Don't ya think?
He doesn't look very happy, like, maybe the lesson is already working, huh?

Be sure to see all 3 pictures .

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Now this is a seriously strict mom ...

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Don't mess with her...

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We need more people like her...
YOU GO MOM !!!
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  #2  
Old 22 July 2007, 09:49 PM
Wesman
 
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we get alot of these from Boston news stations. It's not that uncommon.
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  #3  
Old 22 July 2007, 09:54 PM
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ElectricBarbarella ElectricBarbarella is offline
 
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I think I remember on the old board, a discussion very similar to this. I and someone else were torn apart for stating that we would support "creative" discipline like this.

She's not beating him. She's not yelling at him (only judging by the pictures), she's simply making him stand there with a sign that says what he did.

I am all for it. I would do it in a heartbeat if my kid did something like that.

toni
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  #4  
Old 22 July 2007, 10:06 PM
SamuelJones SamuelJones is offline
 
 
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Originally Posted by ElectricBarbarella View Post
I think I remember on the old board, a discussion very similar to this. I and someone else were torn apart for stating that we would support "creative" discipline like this.

She's not beating him. She's not yelling at him (only judging by the pictures), she's simply making him stand there with a sign that says what he did.

I am all for it. I would do it in a heartbeat if my kid did something like that.

toni
Would you expect any positive results? I wouldn't.

If my 13 year old child were stealing then I would want to know why - peer pressure, personal gain, attention seeking and then I would want to deal with the root cause.

Sounds like the mother has an axe to grind with the father and she's taking that out on the child.
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  #5  
Old 22 July 2007, 10:18 PM
TuFurg TuFurg is offline
 
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Would you expect any positive results? I wouldn't. If my 13 year old child were stealing then I would want to know why - peer pressure, personal gain, attention seeking and then I would want to deal with the root cause. Sounds like the mother has an axe to grind with the father and she's taking that out on the child.


As far as results, that's entirely dependent on the kid. This punishment might be the only thing he needs to be set straight. We really don't know enough about the situation to know what results are to be expected IMO. And while finding the cause is important, that's not to say that a punishment is pointless because it may not yield results.


I definately think the part about the father could have been left out, but then again it's quite possibly something that she's been trying to drive home to the kid with no luck.
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  #6  
Old 22 July 2007, 10:24 PM
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As far as results, that's entirely dependent on the kid. This punishment might be the only thing he needs to be set straight. We really don't know enough about the situation to know what results are to be expected IMO. And while finding the cause is important, that's not to say that a punishment is pointless because it may not yield results.


I definately think the part about the father could have been left out, but then again it's quite possibly something that she's been trying to drive home to the kid with no luck.
Exactly. While it could very well be a grudge against the father, my take on it is that maybe she's been trying to tell the son "Do you really want to end up like daddy" and son hasn't listened.

With this sign, maybe it will drive home to the son, that no, he really does NOT want to end up like daddy.

Maybe it's just enough of an embarressment to set him straight. And yes, I would work towards a solution--this wouldn't be the only thing I did. But I'd do it.

toni
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  #7  
Old 22 July 2007, 10:30 PM
SamuelJones SamuelJones is offline
 
 
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And while finding the cause is important, that's not to say that a punishment is pointless because it may not yield results.
When speaking of children I would say that a punishment that does not yield postive results *is* pointless, res ipsa loquitur.

When speaking of adults I do believe that the only result that is needed from a punishment is justice.

I agree that we cannot judge without knowing all the details of the story but the smart money will tell you that publicly humiliating a teenager is generally not the way to achieve positive results.
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  #8  
Old 22 July 2007, 10:32 PM
SamuelJones SamuelJones is offline
 
 
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Maybe it's just enough of an embarressment to set him straight. And yes, I would work towards a solution--this wouldn't be the only thing I did. But I'd do it.
You would have so badly alienated him that working towards a solution would be impossible.

Have fun in family therapy!

PS> Bet he stole her cigarettes!
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  #9  
Old 22 July 2007, 10:57 PM
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Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
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PS> Bet he stole her cigarettes!
What if he didn't? What if he has been stealing from stores and friends? What if he has been stealing radios or cars? What if she has tried everything else and is desperate to save her son from living the same life as the man she actually does love?

This isn't the kind of deterrent I personally like to see, but your dismissive attitude towards a single mom who clearly has her son's future in mind is unfair. Don't write her off as some chain smoking, bitter hag. She is involved and she is determined, and I'll bet you he thanks her for it some day.
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  #10  
Old 22 July 2007, 11:08 PM
SamuelJones SamuelJones is offline
 
 
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What if he didn't? What if he has been stealing from stores and friends? What if he has been stealing radios or cars? What if she has tried everything else and is desperate to save her son from living the same life as the man she actually does love?

This isn't the kind of deterrent I personally like to see, but your dismissive attitude towards a single mom who clearly has her son's future in mind is unfair. Don't write her off as some chain smoking, bitter hag.
Too late. I already did - LOL!

Anyway - yes I see your premise "what if she tried everything else." Again - publicly belittling the lad is unlikely to achieve a positive result - i.e. he stops stealing and starts valuing the the things that his mother wants for him. There are worse things than stealing and after this episode I have no doubt that he ran right out and found a couple of 'em.

I don't know what "tried everything else" means to you but I can assure you that I would, will and have look for *anything* else other than humiliating my child in front of her friends and the neighborhood. Maybe that's why she trusts me.... which is something that boy will never feel for his mother again if he ever felt it in the first place.


Word
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  #11  
Old 22 July 2007, 11:15 PM
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ElectricBarbarella ElectricBarbarella is offline
 
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And really, your snot nosed pissy attitude towards me and more importantly, my family, is not going to fly either.

There is no need for it. As it is, we don't know the whole story to these pictures and even if we did, someone would still find a way to scream "Won't someone think of the child? ELEVENTY_1!!111!!"

Bullshit. It's called tough love. Intervention. Kicking it before it kicks you. Even if all he stole was a pack of smokes, it may be a harsh way of doing it, but I'd support her doing so if it got her point across.

And your "I don't know what "tried everything else" means to you but I can assure you that I would, will and have look for *anything* else other than humiliating my child in front of her friends and the neighborhood. Maybe that's why she trusts me.... which is something that boy will never feel for his mother again if he ever felt it in the first place."

How the hell do you know that she didn't? Of course, I don't know that she did, but it doesn't matter. This kid will not grow up not trusting her, in fact, I gather just the opposite. I could point to you just one person--Will Smith--who had a mother very similar to this mom--no holds barred, tough love kind of mother who wouldn't take any shit from her kid, including but not limited to horrible grammar.

Is this kid the next Wil Smith? Dunno. Even still, this mother is doing what she needs to to get her point across to him. Which is MUCH better than letting society "teach" him how to be worse.

toni
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  #12  
Old 22 July 2007, 11:33 PM
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Little Pink Pill Little Pink Pill is offline
 
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Maybe that's why she trusts me.... which is something that boy will never feel for his mother again if he ever felt it in the first place.
Trust her to always make his life comfortable? No. But trust her to do whatever it takes to help him make wise decisions with his life? My guess is yes.

If he gets thrown in prison for stealing, everybody in the neighborhood is going to know it, too. Maybe getting a taste of that humiliation now will save him from drowning in it later.

Pain is sometimes the only teacher a kid will respect anymore. I'd rather get a measured dose from someone who loves me than an avalanche from my new cellmate, Bubba.
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Too late. I already did - LOL!
Is that a joking way of taking it back?
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  #13  
Old 22 July 2007, 11:41 PM
TuFurg TuFurg is offline
 
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There are worse things than stealing and after this episode I have no doubt that he ran right out and found a couple of 'em.

Wow- out of a possible four, I gotta rate this one


Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelJones View Post
....which is something that boy will never feel for his mother again if he ever felt it in the first place.
You have absolutely no basis for that comment whatsoever. Maybe you're onto something though...maybe he was the one driving the PT Cruiser...

Last edited by TuFurg; 22 July 2007 at 11:47 PM.
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  #14  
Old 23 July 2007, 01:23 AM
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Johnny Slick Johnny Slick is offline
 
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I don't know all the details, obviously, but I would rate this one about an 80% chance of being nothing more than a mother trying to get her sadism jollies out on her son, who, thief or not, cares enough about their relationship to humiliate himself in this fashion. ISTR having this conversation in another thread... but if the kid cares that much about his mother, there are many other ways that would require less public humiliation and, conversely, less mother-son relationship capital to be spent (I find it effective to think of relationships as a kind of a bank account, complete with deposits, withdrawals, and closing out if the account ever gets to zero). If the child is willing to absorb this and has a chance of being rectified by it, he's likely willing to absorb lesser punishments. I can't foresee a situation in which the child in the photograph would have been unaffected by something like a grounding or having to go and apologize to the steal-ee but would still be willing to do this.

This sort of punishment is primarily useful as a deterrent - the hope would be that other people see this kid and decide not to do something because they don't want to get stuck in his situation. That was, of course, the original point of the stocks. Speaking of which, the scapegoat role has been historically very useful - you overpunish the few so that the many keep in line. I don't think there's any evidence, however, that scapegoating makes the goat itself any less likely to fall back on old habits. If anything, the fact that they are shunned by the larger society whether they behave themselves or not effectively eliminates one thing that prevents a lot of folk from committing crime or other taboos.

That brings up a larger point about society. We sure do love to see people get their so-called just deserts. In that respect I guess it doesn't matter to a lot of people whether or not this is a ploy that actually works; all that matters is they are seeing a Bad Person get punished. It makes us feel a little better about ourselves - after all, here we are not getting punished - and a little more willing to proclaim our goodness to all that can hear it.
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  #15  
Old 23 July 2007, 02:05 AM
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I'm 25 years old and I am absolutely amazed at how many kids now do things that would have gotten me paralyzed if I ever attempted to do that. I see kids openly stealing, cussing out their parents, destroying property because they're bored, and nothing happens to them because someone is scared someone might call social services on them. My older sister, who is now 31 with a 14 year old of her own, used to steal anything she wanted that my mother wouldn't buy for her. It was the first "major" thing she had done. My mother went to the stores and put up her photos in stores so they would not allow her to even enter the store. Public embarrassment, you might say? Well, it did stop her from stealing (until she got older). Now asking your child to clean his room might get you a visit from social services.

They had a Murray episode about five years ago, I believe, about kids who claimed that they didn't care that people knew they stole, beat their parents, did drugs because they were so hardcore, so they made them stand outside holding a sign, very similar to this. Maybe that's where the idea came from.

But he's lucky to have a parents willing to deal with people going "Omg bad parent. You're embarrassing your child". I have one of those parents and, while I'm no angel, I'm not a statistic either.
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  #16  
Old 23 July 2007, 02:27 AM
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ElectricBarbarella ElectricBarbarella is offline
 
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Very true Primal. You are not a statistic.

And Johnny--where the hell do you come up with your statement of "I don't know all the details, obviously, but I would rate this one about an 80% chance of being nothing more than a mother trying to get her sadism jollies out on her son, who, thief or not, cares enough about their relationship to humiliate himself in this fashion." specifically the bold part?

You really think this is nothing more than sadism? You don't believe, that just for one moment, it is nothing more than a mom trying to punish her kid before the system gets to him and he does become a statistic like his father?

You really think it's just a sadistic game to her? I'm gonna have to ask for a cite for this, really I am. I want proof of your "80% sure" she's being nothing more than a sadist.

toni
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  #17  
Old 23 July 2007, 02:30 AM
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I don't have a problem with the holding up sign thing in and of itself. I have a problem with the "Go to prison to be with daddy part." If it was "I'm 13 years old and I was caught stealing." it probably wouldn't look as "sadistic."

In regards to the OP, definately real.
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  #18  
Old 23 July 2007, 02:35 AM
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Yes, but I think the "with daddy" part is what drives her point home. As we've said, how do we know that she hasn't tried other options to drive this point home to him and ended up at this (and I conceded that we also didn't know whether she tried at all)?

If she had tried every option she could think of (and that part of town doesn't look to be the most wholesome)and wasn't getting any help or it wasn't succeeding, then maybe this was the last resort--to which, the "daddy" part would be appropriate.

Just a devil's advocate scenerio: maybe she tried every avenue and was getting smacked each time by people who kept telling the boy "Your daddy did this and that and he was this and that" and mamma felt that "daddy" wasn't the greatest despite these peoples protestations. Maybe she felt that adding "just like my daddy" would not only teach this boy that it isn't "all that", but also those who wouldn't help her, that neither was daddy.

I could see that.

toni
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  #19  
Old 23 July 2007, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ElectricBarbarella View Post
Very true Primal. You are not a statistic.

And Johnny--where the hell do you come up with your statement of "I don't know all the details, obviously, but I would rate this one about an 80% chance of being nothing more than a mother trying to get her sadism jollies out on her son, who, thief or not, cares enough about their relationship to humiliate himself in this fashion." specifically the bold part?

You really think this is nothing more than sadism? You don't believe, that just for one moment, it is nothing more than a mom trying to punish her kid before the system gets to him and he does become a statistic like his father?

You really think it's just a sadistic game to her? I'm gonna have to ask for a cite for this, really I am. I want proof of your "80% sure" she's being nothing more than a sadist.

toni
You seem to be taking this awfully personally. I wonder if you might just consider toning it down a notch? I don't think there's much need for the anger and vitriol.
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  #20  
Old 23 July 2007, 02:55 AM
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I'm only taking the "sadistic" part and the "family therapy" part with any kind of personal inclination to it.

I guess I just wonder why any kind of punishment is so much worse than no punishment? Maybe that's what's bothering me--at least she's showing she cares by doing something, when so many just don't do anything at all.

And then things like "sadistic" and needing "family therapy" are dropped, when I see it as I said--at least she's doing something and it doesn't involve beating her kid to death or abusing him or just letting him "go".

No vitriol or nothing else meant by it other than that. Many have called for cites before on more obscene things than this. I'm just asking for a cite from Johny to back up his "80% sure" claim.

That's all.

toni
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