Safety while speeding

[RichardM]

I have several people remark that when you are speeding, you should be as close to the car ahead of you as possible. That way you are safe from getting a ticket.

This makes me want to scream as tailgaiting regardless of the speed is dangerous. But is it true that the police are more likely to ticket either the car ahead of or behind you?

[Morrigan]

Neither. It's whichever they stop first.

If the car in front stops, they'll ticket that car. If the car in back stops, they'll ticket that car.

If they can stop both of them, guess what? Yeah, they'll both get a ticket. The second one for tailgating as well as speeding.

Morrigan

[RichardM]

I did see that happen once 33 years ago. Made my heart feel good. I was in my Porsche 914 (VW Porsche for those of you overseas) running my usual 75-80 in what was then a 55 MPH posted limit. Going up a long hill, I noticed cars ahead of me tapping their brakes so I lifted off the throttle. The big American cars behind apparently figured my little foreign car could not pull the hill. The cop waved 3 of them over. Well, at least 3 of them pulled over. And I kept watching traffic which was good for me as the next 2 who passed me got pulled over on the other side of the next hill.

[Morrigan]

Don't you love to see that? I know it sounds bad, but I love to see people pulled over for speeding...especially the ones stupid enough to get caught.

*I don't speed, though.

Morrigan

[Jahungo]

Although I have no actual proof, I have to say that logically it makes a huge amount of sense that following another car will make it far less likely to be pulled over (and one wouldn't necessarily have to be following all that closely either, in fact you'd probably be less likely to be ticketed following a bit further back, as if you're too close the officer may specifically target you based on your tailgaiting). Think about it though. At least as far as I've seen, the vast majority of speed traps are a single officer with a radar gun in the squad car on the side of the road, gauging the speed of oncoming cars. When the officer sees someone going fast enough to pull over, he (I know there are plenty of female officers, but most are male and I'm sick of typing "the officer") makes note of the car, pulls out, catches up to it, turns on the siren and pulls you the offending vehicle over.

Now, suppose this sort of trap is set up, and two cars zoom up, both going the same speed, fast enough to get pulled over. The officer, if he is being attentive to his duties, is likely radaring every car, or at least every car that looks fast enough to be speeding. So when this pair of cars comes up, he radars the first one, notes it is speeding, and pulls out to pull it over. It seems unlikely that he would not radar the second car but would radar the other one following shortly behind it. Sure, it's possible, but we're talking about minimizing risk, not eliminating it - if you're speeding fast enough, there's always a chance you'll be pulled over. I mean, if the officer is targeting flashy cars or out of state plates he might choose to pass the first car by but pull over the second one, but really, since the two cars are going the same speed, it otherwise seems highly unlikely that he would not pull the first car over but would the second. And since he can only pull one car over, it's pretty unlikely for him to even radar the second car, once he's realized the first is going fast enough to get pulled over.

Now, of course there are traps where this doesn't hold. In a larger, multivehicle trap which can pull over more than one vehicle at once, you're probably both going to get a ticket. But, again, in my experience the vast majority of speed traps are the single patrol car variety. I mean, it's not likely they have a hard time pulling people over this way.

Again, I have no proof of this, and I doubt there are any statistics on the subject. But it seems very reasonable, so I keep it in mind when driving...although nowadays I try not to go more than 10 over the limit anyhow (although sometimes on long drives the mind wanders and I look down to see I'm going a bit faster than I'd like). And on that note, following another car makes it easier to keep a constant speed, and to avoid accidentally getting to such a speed (I use cruise control quite a bit, but there are a lot of situations where one can't really use it).

[RichardM]

Originally Posted by Morrigan

Don't you love to see that? I know it sounds bad, but I love to see people pulled over for speeding...especially the ones stupid enough to get caught.

*I don't speed, though.

Morrigan

I do speed. Frequently and often. Or should that be often and highly? Basically, to be pulled over for speeding, you do have to be doing something stupid. Reading traffic means that you are not passing people that might pull over in front of you and you can see others reaction to events in front of you in time to slow.

ETA: I trust Morrigan's opinions on this as Morrigan is a recent graduate in criminal law.

[Morrigan]

Originally Posted by RichardM

I do speed. Frequently and often. Or should that be often and highly? Basically, to be pulled over for speeding, you do have to be doing something stupid. Reading traffic means that you are not passing people that might pull over in front of you and you can see others reaction to events in front of you in time to slow.

ETA: I trust Morrigan's opinions on this as Morrigan is a recent graduate in criminal law.

Someone remembered!

*If 2 years ago counts as recent!

You've got the right idea. Unless you're on a 2 lane road, it's fairly difficult to get pulled over. (From what I've seen.) Don't make yourself stand out, and go with the flow of traffic and you're less likely to be pulled over.

Morrigan

[Latiam]

I once narrowly escaped a ticket (I think) in the following way:
The car in front of me and I were speeding. A police officer was in a cul-de-sac with a radar gun and pulled out behind us with lights flashing. I groaned and pulled over, but the car in front of me did not. The police officer then went after the other car, which still did not notice that there was a police car with lights flashing behind him. He got to the next intersection, where he was turning left, before the officer lost patience and gave him a blast of the siren (a very short one) to get his attention. I went on my merry way. I'm still not sure if we both would have been ticketed if the other guy had been pulled over - no way he could have radared me or seen how closely I was following with the speed he pulled out after us, so I would have fought it - but the fact that the other guy did not pull over ensured my ticket-free status. I was happy he did it. I doubt the cop felt the same way.

Originally Posted by RichardM

This makes me want to scream as tailgaiting regardless of the speed is dangerous.....

And a ticketable offense in and of itself.

Seems to me that if you're speeding AND tailgating, you're not only drawing more attention to yourself by committing two infractions, but also taking a risk of doubling your fines. Doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

Plus, as to the thread title, I have to say that I'm not so sure that tailgating while speeding is particularly SAFE.....

[nancyfancypants]

This brings to mind one of my favorite speeding stories. One day shortly after my ex-FIL moved to Louisville, KY, he saw a cop going 80mph in a 65 and decided that since the cop was doing it, he could speed so long as he stayed behind the cop car. Cop's reason for pulling him over: "I was a-doin' 80, and you was a-gainin' on me."

[diddy]

Originally Posted by nancyfancypants

Cop's reason for pulling him over: "I was a-doin' 80, and you was a-gainin' on me."

I can picture the cop saying just that...

[kanazawa]

Originally Posted by Danamac448

And a ticketable offense in and of itself.

Seems to me that if you're speeding AND tailgating, you're not only drawing more attention to yourself by committing two infractions, but also taking a risk of doubling your fines. Doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

Plus, as to the thread title, I have to say that I'm not so sure that tailgating while speeding is particularly SAFE.....

I've only gotten one ticket in my life, many years ago, and went to traffic school to have it excused. IIRC, the heaviest fine anyone in my class got was for following too closely.

FWIW--at the time I went to traffic school, you still had to pay the fine, but the offense didn't appear on your record.

I bought a radar detector. It has paid for itself many times over.

I hate tailgaters. If I'm doing 80 and someone is right behind me it's annoying because it's dangerous.

I have a favorite tailgater story, I did bad and unsafe things but I was pissed. Woman was tailgating me on a 4 lane freeway with NO other cars anywhere near us. I was in the 2nd lane. She could have easily gone around me but no she dosen't. I was at maybe 8mph over speed limit. This continues for about 1mile. I get fed up so I speed up to 15mph over speed limit to get away from tailgater. She remains only a few feet from my bumper. Finally pissed I randomly start stepping on the brake. Still she remains. There are still NO other cars around us. I slow down to 20mph BELOW the speed limit. After another 200yards or so she moves into another lane and passes me. Thankfully I return to the speed limit and then slowly back to the 8mph over the limit. A few miles later I pass her as she is tailgating some other poor soul.

[RichardM]

DQ,
I see that a lot and it happens to me frequently. I usually just signal, move left and let the idiot pass me on the right. I then signal and move back into the right lane.

Originally Posted by Duckie Queen

I have a favorite tailgater story, I did bad and unsafe things but I was pissed. Woman was tailgating me on a 4 lane freeway with NO other cars anywhere near us. I was in the 2nd lane. She could have easily gone around me but no she dosen't. I was at maybe 8mph over speed limit. This continues for about 1mile. I get fed up so I speed up to 15mph over speed limit to get away from tailgater. She remains only a few feet from my bumper. Finally pissed I randomly start stepping on the brake. Still she remains. There are still NO other cars around us. I slow down to 20mph BELOW the speed limit. After another 200yards or so she moves into another lane and passes me. Thankfully I return to the speed limit and then slowly back to the 8mph over the limit. A few miles later I pass her as she is tailgating some other poor soul.

I had a similar experience driving south thru New Mexico on I-25. Similar to your experience, a car got on my bumper and stayed there. I also sped up, slowed down, and tapped the brakes with no effect. Finally, I decided that if he wanted the right lane so much, he could have it. I moved into the left lane, and he pulled in directly behind me, still tailgating. I pulled back into the right lane and he followed. At this point I was getting fairly nervous, and wanted him out from behind me, so I suddenly accelerated, swung into the left lane, and slammed on my brakes. He started to follow me into the left lane, swerved back and hit his brakes. When he saw he was going to stop well past me, he suddenly accelerated and left the highway at the next offramp. I never saw him again, which made me very happy.

[Elwood]

I've heard all kinds of strategies, many of them self-contradictory:

1.) Follow another speeding car, the cops will target the lead car.

2.) BE the lead car, the cops will take the person they get to first, which is the guy behind you who is also speeding.

3.) Follow a speeding sports car, especially if it's red. This is either because:
-a) cops notice speeding red sports car more than the average sedan or
-b) anybody speeding in a red sports car probably has a radar detector, so use their knowledge to your advantage.

4.) Find a speeding tractor trailer and try to match its speed. Cops will invariably go after the 18-wheeler since the fine for speeding in a truck is higher than the fine for speeding in a passenger car. (No idea if that's true or not.)

5.) If you are going to speed, do not drive aggressively in any other way. From personal experience, this seems to be true. I was flying along at 90+ in a 65 the day I bought my very first, very own car. Unbeknownst to me, a state trooper had been following me for miles, but he didn't show much interest until I accelerated even more as my exit approached, cutting off an 18-wheeler in the process and hitting an exit ramp in excess of 100mph. I pleaded my case, telling the truth. "I sped up because I needed to get around the truck before my exit. I am on my way to church" blah blah blah. All I got was, "Elwood, this here is a citation for speeding. Contract your local magistrate's office to arrange payment within seven days. Sign here, please." Thankfully, the citation read 84 in a 65, which was enough to lose six points and week's pay. Had he gone with the 90-100mph I was doing or the reckless driving in front of the tractor-trailer, or if I had a junior operator license instead of a full driver's license (thank you, driver's ed) I would have lost my license then and there. I've been pulled over a few times since then, but never have I driven like that on an interstate or tried to talk my way out of a ticket. So far, I've gotten off with a warning every single time.

Originally Posted by Robigus

I had a similar experience driving south thru New Mexico on I-25. Similar to your experience, a car got on my bumper and stayed there. I also sped up, slowed down, and tapped the brakes with no effect. Finally, I decided that if he wanted the right lane so much, he could have it. I moved into the left lane, and he pulled in directly behind me, still tailgating. I pulled back into the right lane and he followed. At this point I was getting fairly nervous, and wanted him out from behind me, so I suddenly accelerated, swung into the left lane, and slammed on my brakes. He started to follow me into the left lane, swerved back and hit his brakes. When he saw he was going to stop well past me, he suddenly accelerated and left the highway at the next offramp. I never saw him again, which made me very happy.

Oh my gosh, that is so scary. I'm glad you got away from them. You never know and they may have followed you home otherwise.

[Morrigan]

Originally Posted by Elwood

4.) Find a speeding tractor trailer and try to match its speed. Cops will invariably go after the 18-wheeler since the fine for speeding in a truck is higher than the fine for speeding in a passenger car. (No idea if that's true or not.)

True. Trucker's pay higher tickets because of the training that they went through-because THEY should know better, is what I was taught.

Of course, trucks also run in packs (convoy), and the packs tend to speed. I never ran in a pack.

Morrigan

The only thing that I have found successful is having a blocker car about a quarter mile ahead of me, and pace him. If he's going 10 over, so do I, if it's 20, so will I, if it's more, I usually back off. Anyway, at a 1/4 mile, it seems just the right distance for him to be nailed with radar first, then you can watch him slam on the brakes when either his radar detector goes off, or he sees the cop. Tailgating is stupid besides being illegal. Being one of those big highway blocking trucks, I can say tailgaters are incredibly annoying. OTOH, if I have to stop, or hit the brakes, and bozo behind me hits me, miminal damage to the trailer, and no injuries for me, and if I don't notice the impact (seen it happen to other drivers time and again) I continue on my merry way.

I got away with being an idiot on my motorcycle once using a blocker. I was on farm grid roads, on the Prairies, where you can literally see for 20 miles ahead. Well, I wanted to see how fast my bike could go, so I opened it up, I got up to 220 kmh (approx 140 mph) when I started gaining on a pickup truck. He was about a mile ahead, I was just cresting a dip in the road. From the farm about a mile and a half ahead, a cruiser pulled out, and wrote him up for speeding. Maybe I was a smaller radar ticket and he didn't hit me, but more likely he did pick me up, and seeing as the pickup was bigger and closer, the officer thought it was him speeding. Never did that again, my ticket would have been exorbitant, and I couldn't outrun the cop (speed wise, yes) because he's be able to see me for miles on the highway, and know if I turned off. I could have beat him at top speed, his Malibu had a top speed of about 180 kmh, (according to my RCMP brother in law) BUT, nothing beats a Motorola.

[imjustasteph]

Originally Posted by Duckie Queen

I bought a radar detector. It has paid for itself many times over.

I hate tailgaters. If I'm doing 80 and someone is right behind me it's annoying because it's dangerous.

I<snip>.

I'm passive aggressive. I drive the speed limit and not one mile over, because for eleven months, we have lived in a place that required me to pass through a certain town in order to go anywhere (well, not technically; I could've gone somewhere I didn't want to go, but to get to any of the stores I frequent, the pediatrician, basicly everywhere I go on any kind of regular basis I had to pass through this town). This particular town has about two streets and about fifty patrol cars; I do not know why.

They are very passionate about their work. If you speed, you WILL be stopped. So I've gotten in the habit of being very careful about my speed. Since we've moved, I'll probably gradually get more lax, but anyway.

So here's how I'm passive aggressive. Tailgate me. I'm gonna slow down. Oh, you don't like fifty-five? Let's go fifty. You don't look any happier! Forty-five? I'll drop to thirty, I don't care.

At some point they either back off, and I speed up, and they get the point, or they go around, or turn, or take a different route. All fine with me, but I'm not going to be intimidated into speeding up. I don't want a ticket.

I've really always hoped to catch up to one and find him being pulled over (after he passes me in such a hurry I mean) but it's never happened so far. Usually though, I find that what my mom told me when I got my first car is right: it's silly to pass somebody to go 5mph faster. Usually you get to the next stop light and they're right beside you. Well, yeah, you know, that makes sense: if you're traveling sixty miles, 5mph would get you there 5 minutes faster, assuming you don't slow down for any curves, stoplights, etc. And how often is the next stoplight sixty miles away?

I usually do find I'm next to the guy in a hurry at the next light, and that is ALMOST as good as finding him pulled over.