Zeitgeist movie on Google

[snopes]

Comment: It's a two(ish)-hour movie that tries to show that

1. Christianity is a lie (that's the first 30 min.),
2. The 9/11 attacks are a conspiracy,
3. WWI, WWII, Vietnam are also cosnpiries,
4. The banking industry subversively rules the U.S. and has had a hand in all the aformentioned conspiracies, plus some others.

If true, it would be quite shocking. I think it's worth looking into - and I will do so myself. I hope you watch it.

Skip the 7 or so minute musical/graphic intro;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=4

[Silas Sparkhammer]

WWI was a conspiracy: Gavrilo Princip was one of a group of assassins.

WWII was a conspiracy: Hitler was part of a ruling cabal.

Vietnam was a conspiracy: the Turner Joy incident was fabricated.

So what else isn't new?

Silas

[Pseudo_Croat]

That is such a huge conspiracy, spanning hundreds of years and large parts of the globe, that it simply cannot be true. How are you going to keep that many people mum for that long? Sooner or later, someone's gonna squawk.

It's simply not plausible.

- Pseudo "Conspiracygate" Croat

Originally Posted by Pseudo_Croat

That is such a huge conspiracy, spanning hundreds of years and large parts of the globe, that it simply cannot be true. How are you going to keep that many people mum for that long? Sooner or later, someone's gonna squawk.

It's simply not plausible.

- Pseudo "Conspiracygate" Croat

I recommend you watch the film one more time. I don't think you completely understood the point.

People do talk, and people did know about this. Most of the movie was not a surprise to me at all, though I still found it wildly entertaining and scary.

I was told about 9/11 before it happened at a University function. Look up Aaron Russo, who befriended one of the Rockefellers and got the story out of him 11 months before 9/11. Aaron told a few of his buddies that were in the know about some of the stuff you saw in the film regarding Kennedy, etc.. btw checkout Operation Northwoods on wikipedia and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtbnBtAHpmQ

So one of these guys he leaked it to ended up giving a speech at my University. Another was a radio DJ who supposedly even announced it on air...He said there would be a terrorist attack, most likely at the world trade center, it would be an inside job and it would be done using hijacked planes.

About 6 months before the attack, I was informed that before the end of the year the biggest event in human history since the birth of Christ was going to occur. The speaker said that it would change everything, but we needed to question it. The speaker was also in the movie Zeitgeist. He also told us about Operation Northwoods, before 9/11.. So again, I was not surprised.

The point is that the media, religion and our educational system have access to the most people, so the fact that somebody "squawks" doesn't mean that the information is going to be well known or taken with high regard. Part of the trick that the media plays on everyone is to create a source, and then call it a "higher" source in order to disprove some of these things. Another trick they use is repetition. You should really look up 9/11 "tin foil hat" on google and you will find out how many people reference this in discussion forums and such in describing those who have found out the truth about these things. It was no surprise that I found the term later referenced several times by mainstream media in regards to anything anti-911, especially FoxNews.

Snopes is a fairly reliable site, but even they will fall into this trap of using the official "Houghton Mifflin" source to disprove certain rumors, and from time to time I will disagree...unfortunately I can't think of anything specific at the moment. So the point of the movie is that the people who have control over the media and publishing companies often have access to change that information or simply disregard it.

Now, I'm not going to say that everything said in the movie was 100% accurate, what I will say is that there is really no way of knowing since information is sometimes dynamic, it changes, it can disappear...I think there is enough clear evidence in the film that proves the point they are trying to make, which is that there have been secret societies of elite that have existed for centuries and have successfully been able to infiltrate and take over the banking industries throughout the industrialized world. I mean, this is what the American Revolution was about.. getting away from the vice of these wealthy central bankers and promote free trade within the colonies. Our founding fathers specifically tried to block this from happening in the future through our constitution, but the banks inevitably changed the laws slowly without exploiting them, and continue to do so until they get what they want.. Once they get what they want they use the series of laws they have created to their advantage. That's what is happening with our Bill of Rights and Constitution, just because they haven't exploited the new laws and used them against US citizens doesn't mean they aren't going to, it means they aren't done changing laws yet.

[snapdragonfly]

I intend to watch it all but not tonight.

18 minutes in, there's some problems though.

First he lists all the religions that have all these things in common - one of them being the birth of the religious figure on Dec. 25. The most recent being Jesus.

But Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25. We don't know when he was born. Dec 25 was just picked because everyone was already used to doing their thing on that day and it was easier to make it on that day. It took a while before that evolved. Christianity didn't just spring fully formed one day with the whole December 25th thing (and a bunch of other stuff either.) If all these other religions have repeating themes, it makes sense to me that they would make their way into Christianity eventually also, but that doesn't prove nor disprove if Jesus lived and if he was what Christianity thinks he was.

Then he talks about how the sun seems to stop getting more southerly on Dec 22, stand still for three days, then get northerly again, thus the whole dead for three days and resurrected.

But that didn't happen in Christianity in December, it happened over Passover, which has nothing to do with the solstice. He doesn't give a very specific reason for it being in spring other than the sun finally overtaking, but the Christianity is very involved with the idea that the Resurrection and Passover are very much connected. He doesn't really go into Passover at all.

Also he makes references to the "son" and the "sun" , but if you want to prove that Christianity is just the latest version of the same old myth, then there would have to be the same homynym in all the other languages, and there isn't, to my knowledge. I could be wrong.

I'm not all that impressed so far - it's interesting, but some of it's arguments are based on some inaccuracies, as far as Christianity. Can't speak about the other religions as I don't know them that well.

I'm not claiming that MY points prove Christianity is RIGHT, but he hasn't proved it's a hoax of some sort with his points that I have seen so far. They are stretching and almost a strawman.

He makes a lot of connections, but there's no proof that this means that, and this stands for the other, etc etc. - where is the "cite?" heh. It's just his opinion. Interesting, but not really proof one way or another. I do like astrology, though.

one last edit: it's way too late at night for me to make sure my own arguments are sound, so be kind. Heh.

[TheAmazingRando]

It's been a while since I've seen it, but as far as I recall most of the arguments about the similarities between Jesus and Egyptian mythology have been discussed here and found to be more or less fabricated. I don't have a link to the thread, though.

Well, I think #3 is close to the truth....



"Money makes the world go around..."

[Dropbear]

Originally Posted by dannno

About 6 months before the attack, I was informed that before the end of the year the biggest event in human history since the birth of Christ was going to occur.

Tragic as they were- by what estimate were the events of 9/11 "the biggest event in human history since the birth of Christ"? I can think of at least 10 other events of the top of myhead that were bigger and more momentous.

Dropbear

Originally Posted by Dropbear

Tragic as they were- by what estimate were the events of 9/11 "the biggest event in human history since the birth of Christ"? I can think of at least 10 other events of the top of myhead that were bigger and more momentous.

Dropbear

Hmmmm...9/11 (what about 4-5 thousand)vs. Hiroshima to name but one (around 70 thousand killed and around anothe 70 thousand injured) I don't think the maths add up some how.
Unless he only counts American deaths and if that is the fact he needs to get his head out of his ass long enouth for someone to check for brain activity.

[Dropbear]

Originally Posted by lazerus the duck

Hmmmm...9/11 (what about 4-5 thousand)vs. Hiroshima to name but one (around 70 thousand killed and around anothe 70 thousand injured) I don't think the maths add up some how.
Unless he only counts American deaths and if that is the fact he needs to get his head out of his ass long enouth for someone to check for brain activity.

But... but... but... 9/11 affected him. The fall of Rome, the Black death, the recent Tsunami in South-east Asia, WWI, WWII, the collapse of soviet style communism and consequent restructuring of eastern europe, the rise of communism in China, the cultural revolution and the subsequent shift towards one-party capitalism. These were all minor things - he saw 9/11 on the TV and it was terrible =- they even cancelled the "Friends" marathon!

Dropbear

[TheAmazingRando]

Originally Posted by Dropbear

Tragic as they were- by what estimate were the events of 9/11 "the biggest event in human history since the birth of Christ"? I can think of at least 10 other events of the top of myhead that were bigger and more momentous.

Dropbear

I think you're forgetting: God only cares about Americans.

[snopes]

About 6 months before the attack, I was informed that before the end of the year the biggest event in human history since the birth of Christ was going to occur.

And, in November 2001, Arizona did in fact beat the Yankees with a miraculous come-from-behind, bottom-of-the-ninth-inning rally in the seventh game of the World Series.

QED.

- snopes

[Dropbear]

Originally Posted by dannno

Most of the movie was not a surprise to me at all, though I still found it wildly entertaining and scary.

People said the same about the Halloween movies - that doesn't make them documentaries.

I was told about 9/11 before it happened at a University function.

Did it include beer by any chance?

Look up Aaron Russo, who befriended one of the Rockefellers and got the story out of him 11 months before 9/11. Aaron told a few of his buddies that were in the know about some of the stuff you saw in the film regarding Kennedy, etc.. btw checkout Operation Northwoods on wikipedia and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtbnBtAHpmQ

That's what I'd do if I knew of an impending attack - tell a few buddies.

So one of these guys he leaked it to ended up giving a speech at my University. Another was a radio DJ who supposedly even announced it on air...He said there would be a terrorist attack, most likely at the world trade center, it would be an inside job and it would be done using hijacked planes.

Cite please - and the use of the word 'supposedly' here is a bit of a giveaway for a FOAF tale

About 6 months before the attack, I was informed that before the end of the year the biggest event in human history since the birth of Christ was going to occur. The speaker said that it would change everything, but we needed to question it. The speaker was also in the movie Zeitgeist. He also told us about Operation Northwoods, before 9/11.. So again, I was not surprised.

Well aside from the comical "biggest event since the birth of Christ thing" your own Wiki source states that the Operation Northwoods material was released by the National Security Archives in April 2001

The point is that the media, religion and our educational system have access to the most people, so the fact that somebody "squawks" doesn't mean that the information is going to be well known or taken with high regard. Part of the trick that the media plays on everyone is to create a source, and then call it a "higher" source in order to disprove some of these things. Another trick they use is repetition.

You see this with the cruel treatment of the flat-earth people and the fake moon-landing people all the time. Trotting out so-called experts and repeating over and over again – “the world is round and we went to the moon.”

You should really look up 9/11 "tin foil hat" on google and you will find out how many people reference this in discussion forums and such in describing those who have found out the truth about these things. It was no surprise that I found the term later referenced several times by mainstream media in regards to anything anti-911, especially FoxNews.

When FoxNews can spot a loonie then they must be really out there.

Snopes is a fairly reliable site,

Is this a reverse ad hominem attack? You should listen to and support my argument because otherwise you won’t be credible anymore?

but even they will fall into this trap of using the official "Houghton Mifflin" source to disprove certain rumors, and from time to time I will disagree...unfortunately I can't think of anything specific at the moment.

Pity, that.

So the point of the movie is that the people who have control over the media and publishing companies often have access to change that information or simply disregard it.

True but not for the reasons you suggest – it more happens because editors tend to want to not publish stuff that irritates the owners. There’s no need for sinister conspiracies of dark suits who review everything that gets published to vet it for the cabal – people will tend to do it for themselves. Which is why its important to encourage free speech and to read widely.

Now, I'm not going to say that everything said in the movie was 100% accurate, what I will say is that there is really no way of knowing since information is sometimes dynamic, it changes, it can disappear

So what, specifically, do you think was accurate and what specific evidence do you have to back up your opinions – Oh that’s right it’s disappeared – perhaps into those black helicopters.

I think there is enough clear evidence in the film that proves the point they are trying to make, which is that there have been secret societies of elite that have existed for centuries and have successfully been able to infiltrate and take over the banking industries throughout the industrialized world.

This is cart before the horse thinking – you don’t need global conspiracies to see that similar groups act in similar ways – its called a convergence of interests and is related to the basic principle of a market economy – the “invisible hand” Essentially this means that banks (or any other company or group) will seek to promote conditions that are suitable to their interests – within a market economy the banking sector holds considerable influence – therefore their interests will tend to prevail.

I mean, this is what the American Revolution was about.. getting away from the vice of these wealthy central bankers and promote free trade within the colonies. Our founding fathers specifically tried to block this from happening in the future through our constitution, but the banks inevitably changed the laws slowly without exploiting them, and continue to do so until they get what they want.. Once they get what they want they use the series of laws they have created to their advantage. That's what is happening with our Bill of Rights and Constitution, just because they haven't exploited the new laws and used them against US citizens doesn't mean they aren't going to, it means they aren't done changing laws yet.

So what have they done specifically if they haven’t broken any laws or used existing ones against US citizens (as opposed to other people from other countries who don’t really count…)

Dropbear

[We'veBeenHad]

I found this to be a good analysis of all these conspiracy theories - http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000140.html It's all Leonard Nimoy's fault. It covers the moon landing, the JFK assassination, the "demolition" on 9/11, etc.

[ganzfeld]

Originally Posted by dannno

I was told about 9/11 before it happened at a University function.

At least we know who to blame now.

[glass papaya]

DD brought this movie home so we could watch it together. One of her coworkers gave it to her.

What I learned: Why her coworker insists that we will all have microchips implanted in our brains, so we are all doomed.

What I didn't learn: Why she believes moving to Greece will save her. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention? Can someone help me with this?

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Originally Posted by glass papaya

DD brought this movie home so we could watch it together. One of her coworkers gave it to her.

What I learned: Why her coworker insists that we will all have microchips implanted in our brains, so we are all doomed.

What I didn't learn: Why she believes moving to Greece will save her. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention? Can someone help me with this?

Everyone knows that the Global-Banking-9/11-JFK-FakeMoonLanding-Conspirators are all afraid of Zeus and refuse to operate in Greece....or was it Hercules they are scared of, can't remember.