Couple wants $50,000 not to abort?

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by Jahungo

Aside from that, those who are able to work for a living should.

Ah, but you assume two things here: a) that the level of income the gov't requires in order to benefit from those programs is reasonable (which it's not) and that b) a job, even a full-time one will be enough to make ends meet (which it won't).

Really, I think that, before we shuttle funds into faith-based type programs, we need to get the people to a minimum standard of dignified living. and the country is far from that now

[Jahungo]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

Ah, but you assume two things here: a) that the level of income the gov't requires in order to benefit from those programs is reasonable (which it's not) and that b) a job, even a full-time one will be enough to make ends meet (which it won't).

Really, I think that, before we shuttle funds into faith-based type programs, we need to get the people to a minimum standard of dignified living. and the country is far from that now

I agree, of course. That's why I said the programs need reforming, especially through expanding Workfare to address your second point. But sadly, the government does not work that well, as I said. If it did, the Soviet Union would be the most prosperous nation in the world right now. And, sadly, with the Iraq conflict going on, I'm guessing the government budget is a little stretched. I'm not saying that's right, of course, but the way the national debt is piling up just makes it harder for people to push through more spending on anything.

[Seburiel]

Well, since I hadn't seen it posted yet, here's the WHOIS for the site:

Registrant:
Andrew Gardner
1234 Fake Street
Fake Apt 12
Fake City, California 93401
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: HELPMYBABYLIVE.COM
Created on: 16-Jun-07
Expires on: 16-Jun-08
Last Updated on: 16-Jun-07

Administrative Contact:
Gardner, Andrew contact@invisihosting.com
1234 Fake Street
Fake Apt 12
Fake City, California 93401
United States
(415) 555-5555

Technical Contact:
Gardner, Andrew contact@invisihosting.com
1234 Fake Street
Fake Apt 12
Fake City, California 93401
United States
(415) 555-5555

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.INVISIHOSTING.COM
NS1.GEODNS.NET
NS2.GEODNS.NET

See, I said it was Andrew Gardner on Fake Street. What snopes found was a lot more intriguing...though only as clear as mud. Why would a pro-lifer set up a site like that except because he knows the prolifers and that they would donate in such a case? (IOW just a money motivation.) But it's a very weird method, could there be anything else behind it?

[Spamamander]

He's trying to paint people who would want to seek an abortion as "evil"- that someone who is pro-choice would go so far as to extort money for the poor "baby's" life. Look at these people! Babykillers will do anything!

[Eve MG]

Originally Posted by One-Fang

What about the three months bit?

I noticed that - he mentions they need to raise the money in three months but never gives a date - either the date he writes it or the date three months is up. (Not that I could find, anyway.) If they really needed to make a decision, and preferred to keep the baby, as the website says, wouldn't they want to tell people the date they need the money by?

I vote scam, and that there are no dates because this way he can run it a little longer than three months.

[Little Pink Pill]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

A woman is not a dog.

I was talking about the puppy part, the whole jerking on the heartstrings part.

[ElapheG]

This isn't the first time something like this has been done: http://stopmyabortion.blogspot.com/ (warning: possibly distressing pictures at the top of the page).

I'm pretty sure the one I've linked to is a hoax, but if not it's fairly reprehensible, if only for what the life of the baby would be like if it were born (note: I am very strongly pro-choice, but I'm not in favour of wilfully trying to induce birth defects just because you're going to have an abortion). That said, I'm not against the idea in principle, just the way that this person supposedly went about it.

[queen of the caramels]

Originally Posted by We'veBeenHad

ETA: Jahungo, great Churchill quote So true.

[/hijack] It's used in Civ IV.[/hijack off]

[BillyJoeJimBob]

absolutely sick and disgusting

You can intellectualize their actions all you want, hell, cheer them on but there's no way on earth that you can justify "pay me or we'll murder the baby"

BTW, I'm an adopted child, adoption is an option, a much better one than murder.

[Chloe]

Originally Posted by BillyJoeJimBob

absolutely sick and disgusting

You can intellectualize their actions all you want, hell, cheer them on but there's no way on earth that you can justify "pay me or we'll murder the baby"

BTW, I'm an adopted child, adoption is an option, a much better one than murder.

And this kind of unthought-out post is exactly why all discussions that involve abortion end up coming back to the same old baby/not a baby murder/not murder routine. Sigh.

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

if that belief means that he would limit abortion, then he accords the fetus more rights than the woman.

I have to disagree with your statement (wow, who saw that coming...). I could see it if, for example, someone said there were NO situations where an abortion was called for (i.e., even life of the mother). However, that is not the typical POV of pro-life folks. True, the life of the fetus trumps the convenience of the woman, but if the woman's life is in danger, her right to life supersedes the fetus's right to life.

[BillyJoeJimBob]

Originally Posted by Chloe

And this kind of unthought-out post is exactly why all discussions that involve abortion end up coming back to the same old baby/not a baby murder/not murder routine. Sigh.

It's very well thought out.

It's my opinion that I'm entitled to, just as you are entitled to yours. You can discuss/debate this issue till the cows come home but the bottom line is this: pay me or we'll murder this unborn child.

moneymoneymoneymoneyMONEY

one point if you can give the title and artist.

[Chloe]

Originally Posted by Doug4.7

True, the life of the fetus trumps the convenience of the woman, but if the woman's life is in danger, her right to life supersedes the fetus's right to life.

Please tell me right now that you are using the word "convenience" here to refer to the way that the typical anti-abortion person thinks about a woman's reasons for choosing abortion rather than what you think. This will save me from ranting at you at great length. Thank you.

[Chloe]

Hey Doug, since you no longer think a fetus is a baby, but do think that it is still valuable, and you no longer think that abortion is murder, but do think that it is still wrong, how 'bout explaining why that is to BillyJoeJimBob?

Originally Posted by BillyJoeJimBob

It's very well thought out.

It's my opinion that I'm entitled to, just as you are entitled to yours. You can discuss/debate this issue till the cows come home but the bottom line is this: pay me or we'll murder this unborn child.

That's only the bottom line if you believe a foetus is a child and abortion is murder. for the rest of us, the issue is a bit more complex.

and incidentally, nobody said you weren't entitled to your opinion.

moneymoneymoneymoneyMONEY

one point if you can give the title and artist.

Ted DiBiase's WWF theme?

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by BillyJoeJimBob

BTW, I'm an adopted child, adoption is an option, a much better one than murder.

Hmmm. Oddly enough, you can't say that. Due to the fact that you have no idea what would have occured had you been aborted. You might have gone into the ether. You might have been placed in another body to be born. You simply don't know.

And, sorry, but even if you do know, that's just you. You can't make that blanket statement. For many kids, being aborted would have been better than be born, adopted or living with the natural family.

[Ryda Wong, EBfCo.]

Originally Posted by Doug4.7

True, the life of the fetus trumps the convenience of the woman.

And that's an anti-woman position, doug, no matter how you slice it.

[Buckle Up]

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.

And that's an anti-woman position, doug, no matter how you slice it.

Ryda, I'm not going to succeed in convincing you, probably, but don't you see that your failure to yield and your broad assumptions about anyone who is even moderate on this subject paints you as just as narrow-minded as the pro-lifers you can't stand? The two sides have got to figure out some common ground eventually because they are never going to convince each other. I have really respected you on this board but when you say that someone deserves to be scammed and bilked of their money just because their beliefs are different from yours, well, that saddened me. FWIW.

[BillyJoeJimBob]

Originally Posted by Chloe

Hey Doug, since you no longer think a fetus is a baby, but do think that it is still valuable, and you no longer think that abortion is murder, but do think that it is still wrong, how 'bout explaining why that is to BillyJoeJimBob?

The question your actually asking seems to be: Is there every a reason for abortion?

my answer would be yes, to save the life of the mother.

You might call that pro-choice but I don't, I call it Pro-life, and quite a few of us feel that way.