snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Soapbox Derby

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07 January 2015, 12:58 PM
Steve Steve is offline
 
Join Date: 19 October 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 4,868
Default Gun attack on French magazine kills 12

Gunmen have attacked the Paris office of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, killing 12 people and injuring seven, French officials say.

At least two masked attackers opened fire with assault rifles in the office and exchanged shots with police in the street outside before escaping by car.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07 January 2015, 01:20 PM
Kermor Kermor is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2012
Location: Bois d'Arcy, France
Posts: 385
France

I've just heard that. Among the dead are two cartoonists which have accompanied me pretty much all my life : Cabu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabu) and Wolinski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Wolinski . Simply terrible.

Last edited by Kermor; 07 January 2015 at 01:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07 January 2015, 04:04 PM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is online now
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,160
Default

Another 'W' for the religion of peace.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07 January 2015, 04:19 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,512
Default

Errata, do you react like that whenever Christians kill people?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07 January 2015, 04:33 PM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is online now
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Errata, do you react like that whenever Christians kill people?
You got me, I just love Christianity. Busted.

Christians don't as a general rule kill journalists for mocking Jesus. They wring their hands on Fox News or write an angry letter to the editor in the local paper. Muslims kill for words with shocking regularity, and we just accept that we have to treat them with kid gloves and never offend them.

This is not isolated nut-jobs, this is part of an organized and systematic worldview, and quite a significant proportion of Muslims worldwide would condone it as an appropriate reaction to blasphemy. There are prominent Muslim voices today explaining how free speech doesn't apply when it comes to the Prophet.

Last edited by Errata; 07 January 2015 at 04:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07 January 2015, 04:57 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,512
Default

Even presuming we leave out the history of the previous few hundred years, Christians have been killing others in the name of religion, not as individual nutjobs but as a systematic part of regional wars, within my lifetime.


I very much doubt that the people calling themselves Muslims who are either committing or defending this sort of NSFBSK are the same as the ones who are insisting that Islam is a religion of peace.


Snarl all you want at the specific people supporting this sort of behavior. But the problem really isn't the religion. It's this streak of human behavior, which uses whatever religion is handy at the given time as an excuse. And arguing that all Muslims are essentially terrorists is just playing into their hands.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07 January 2015, 05:05 PM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is online now
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
It's this streak of human behavior, which uses whatever religion is handy at the given time as an excuse.
Which Christian terrorist organizations are systematically killing journalists who mock them? This isn't an isolated incident, it has happened before, frequently, and will happen again. Even this newspaper was already a previous victim of attacks. It's a long pattern that doesn't apply to "whatever religion is handy". It applies to one specific religion, and the rest of the world has to treat that one religion as different from all the others if they don't want to get firebombed or shot.

Why hasn't someone walked into the Book of Mormon on Broadway with a bomb strapped to their chest? Why wasn't Charlie Hebdo ever targeted by Catholics for their anti-Catholic cartoons? Why is Mohammed the only religious figure that Comedy Central had to censor?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07 January 2015, 05:36 PM
crocoduck_hunter's Avatar
crocoduck_hunter crocoduck_hunter is offline
 
Join Date: 27 May 2009
Location: Roseburg, OR
Posts: 12,729
Default

HashtagNotAllMuslims
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07 January 2015, 05:59 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,512
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
It's a long pattern that doesn't apply to "whatever religion is handy".
It's an extremely long pattern that most certainly does apply to multiple religions. I suggest you do a little historical research. For relatively recent cases, try checking, for instance, into Ireland and Kosovo.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07 January 2015, 06:07 PM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
Join Date: 27 March 2004
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 4,496
Default

Over the centuries, there has been war after war over religion whether it was the crusades of the middle ages or the 100 Years War in France or the War of the Roses in England.

Whether or not these were true Muslims, it happens today that those calling themselves Muslims deliberately attack people who they think are blasphemers.

It is not true that there are those doing the same in the name of Christianity or any other religion today.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07 January 2015, 06:09 PM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
Join Date: 27 March 2004
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 4,496
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
It's an extremely long pattern that most certainly does apply to multiple religions. I suggest you do a little historical research. For relatively recent cases, try checking, for instance, into Ireland and Kosovo.
The religious war in Ireland has been going on for centuries but people are not and have not been attacked for blasphemy. One side in Kosovo, the side we sent troops to protect, is Moslem.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07 January 2015, 06:10 PM
erwins's Avatar
erwins erwins is offline
 
Join Date: 04 April 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,190
Default

Even if you grant that these attacks are unique in terms of religious motivation, that would say something about a particular radical interpretation of the religion, not something about all Muslims, or about whether it is actually a religion of peace (at least as much so as most other religions, anyway) for many millions of people who aren't attacking anyone.

When a radical right wing Christian bombs an abortion clinic or shoots a doctor, I may at least partially blame the doctrine the person has been following. But it wouldn't really make sense to paint all Christians with the same brush.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07 January 2015, 06:17 PM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
Join Date: 27 March 2004
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 4,496
Default

Agreed but there is still only one religious figure that it is dangerous to satarize.

And those who advocate violence against abortion clinics from the pulpit should be prosecuted.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07 January 2015, 06:57 PM
queen of the caramels's Avatar
queen of the caramels queen of the caramels is offline
 
Join Date: 24 November 2005
Location: Quebec
Posts: 4,573
Royalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM View Post
Over the centuries, there has been war after war over religion whether it was the crusades of the middle ages or the 100 Years War in France or the War of the Roses in England.
Neither of those wars were about religion since both England and France were Catholics as were both the House of Lancaster and the House of York.

Both of those were about political power and/or land.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07 January 2015, 07:17 PM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
Join Date: 27 March 2004
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 4,496
Default

Sorry, I did happen to pick two wars that did not have religion as their basis. Take the 30 Year War then, or other wars in Eurpore after the Protestant Reformation or the wars in England after King Henry started the Church of England.

The point is that religious wars did not start with Islam having occured before and since. But today, there is still only one religion that it is physically dangerous to saterize.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07 January 2015, 07:33 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM View Post

The point is that religious wars did not start with Islam having occured before and since. But today, there is still only one religion that it is physically dangerous to saterize.
And with boring regularity whenever this obvious fact gets pointed out we get the cries of "but others do it too". Nevermind that "others" aren't.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07 January 2015, 07:35 PM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is online now
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,160
Default

I do worry that as our religious right second amendment enthusiasts start losing the demographic power to elect Tea Party candidates across the South that they might switch to other tactics besides politics. But that's speculation and doesn't reflect the current state of things.

Even in the most radical churches it's hard to find widespread support for abortion bombing type tactics. But it's not hard to find large bastions of support for anti-blasphemy violence in muslim majority countries, in fact it's the norm in many places. There was never a Renaissance in the Muslim world.

There may be hundreds of millions of Muslims who are non-violent, but there are also hundreds of millions who tacitly or not-so-tacitly think that blasphemy is a bigger problem than violence against blasphemers.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07 January 2015, 07:37 PM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,611
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
Another 'W' for the religion of peace.
So what shall we do exactly? Ban free practice of religion? Shoot them on sight?

Both things we do by the way. It seems to have worked swimmingly so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM View Post
It is not true that there are those doing the same in the name of Christianity or any other religion today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassi..._George_Tiller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks (done explicitly to make a stand against Muslims too!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centenn...c_Park_bombing

It's almost like when a white Christian guy does something like this... we're a lot more likely to explain it away since it doesn't fit a preconceived bias of "the Other".
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07 January 2015, 07:40 PM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,611
Default

Errata's post went up at the same time, but...

Quote:
But that's speculation and doesn't reflect the current state of things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Las_Vegas_shootings

Buddies of Cliven Bundy, a radical extremist.

Cartoonist Matt Bors made a similar observation as I about the treatment of the killers in this case by the media vs. people who don't fit the narrative.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07 January 2015, 07:43 PM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is online now
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan View Post
So what shall we do exactly? Ban free practice of religion? Shoot them on sight?
It would be a good start if the West stops importing new residents from Islamist countries, which is a much bigger problem for Europe than the US. At least stanch the bleeding a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan View Post
It's almost like when a white Christian guy does something like this... we're a lot more likely to explain it away since it doesn't fit a preconceived bias of "the Other".
You don't have to go back to 1996 to find 3 examples for Muslims. You only have to go back a few weeks.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flight 103 magazine hack snopes Spook Central 0 05 December 2009 06:24 PM
PC Magazine's Top 100 Web Sites of 2009 JoeBentley Snopes Spotting 0 03 August 2009 06:09 PM
PC Magazine's Top 100 Classic Websites JoeBentley Snopes Spotting 0 26 August 2008 10:23 PM
Bitch magazine Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Snopes Spotting 2 18 June 2007 03:35 PM
Ancestry Magazine mention of snopes Tootsie Plunkette Snopes Spotting 0 10 January 2007 05:42 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.