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Old 07 October 2018, 07:29 PM
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Default Kavanaugh Is Sworn In After Close Confirmation Vote in Senate

Kavanaugh Is Sworn In After Close Confirmation Vote in Senate

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Before Saturday’s vote, one of his accusers, Deborah Ramirez, who has said Judge Kavanaugh thrust his genitals in her face during a drunken dormitory party at Yale, issued a statement deploring what was about to happen.

“Thirty-five years ago, the other students in the room chose to laugh and look the other way as sexual violence was perpetrated on me by Brett Kavanaugh,” she wrote. “As I watch many of the senators speak and vote on the floor of the Senate I feel like I’m right back at Yale where half the room is laughing and looking the other way. Only this time, instead of drunk college kids, it is U.S. senators who are deliberately ignoring his behavior. This is how victims are isolated and silenced.”
I know the usual convention is to post the first paragraph or so, to give a brief and clear synopsis of the story for those who don't or can't read the article. But the headline does that well enough, and this is the part I wanted to share for those who have already used up their free articles for the month.
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Old 07 October 2018, 09:26 PM
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The lack of serious investigation into the rape and sexual assault allegations is bad enough, but he also committed perjury and that's being largely ignored.
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Old 08 October 2018, 12:03 AM
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I nearly started a thread about this some days ago, and was rather surprised that nobody else had; but I thought maybe people here were burning out on Bad News, so instead I went and eavesdropped at Straight Dope when I couldn't keep myself from thinking about it.

Yes indeed, crocoduck_hunter. Even if Kavanaugh genuinely thinks he's telling the truth when he says the accusations are false, he's clearly deliberately lying -- under oath -- about other things. Just over 50% of the Senate clearly doesn't care. (I'm not sure about all the other 48%, either.)

November. November. I am scared stiff about November. Please vote!
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Old 08 October 2018, 01:01 AM
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I plan to, but I'm not pinning my hopes on the fickle populace that put this lot in power to begin with.

~Psihala
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Old 08 October 2018, 06:12 PM
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Tom Nichols: Why I’m Leaving the Republican Party

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As an aside, let me say that I have no love for the Democratic Party, which is torn between totalitarian instincts on one side and complete political malpractice on the other.
...
But during the Kavanaugh dumpster fire, the performance of the Democratic Party—with some honorable exceptions such as Senators Chris Coons, Sheldon Whitehouse, and Amy Klobuchar—was execrable. From the moment they leaked the Ford letter, they were a Keystone Cops operation, with Hawaii’s Senator Mazie Hirono willing to wave away the Constitution and get right to a presumption of guilt, and Senator Dianne Feinstein looking incompetent and outflanked instead of like the ranking member of one of the most important committees in America.

The Republicans, however, have now eclipsed the Democrats as a threat to the rule of law and to the constitutional norms of American society.
Are you really leaving the Republican Party, Tom? Because you sound like you are staying with all of their key talking points. To me it sounds like you are trying to have your cake and eat it too, you want to be a Republican but be able to disassociate yourself (if just in your own mind) from the Republican party.
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Old 08 October 2018, 06:18 PM
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The Democrat Party is the one with totalitarian instincts and political malpractice?
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Old 08 October 2018, 07:45 PM
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. . . with Hawaii’s Senator Mazie Hirono willing to wave away the Constitution and get right to a presumption of guilt . . .
It was not a trial, as I'm sure he knows.
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Old 08 October 2018, 08:00 PM
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The Constitution on the presumption of guilt has not got a damn thing to do with it.

Kavanaugh was not on trial with a possible prison sentence at stake. This was a job interview. The Constitution most certainly does not say 'with the advice and consent of the Senate, but the Senate must consent unless the nominee is adjudged guilty of a crime.'

-- sorry, Lainie, I didn't refresh the thread.
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Old 09 October 2018, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
The Democrat Party is the one with totalitarian instincts and political malpractice?
I used to think (after joining Snopes) that the difference between the left and right in America and the left in the right in say, Australia, is that the right in America the right was against more control whereas in Australia the right liked more control. Due to your war of independence and all that. But really the right in both countries are ok with control...as long as it of the right people.
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Old 09 October 2018, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
The Democrat Party is the one with totalitarian instincts and political malpractice?
You never heard people call Obama a tyrant? It wasn’t just Paul your best friend in Middle School calling him a tyrant on Facebook, Fox News commentators did so too.

Also, during the election, I saw a meme with a picture of Hitler with the caption “Never arrested. Never convicted. Just as innocent as Hillary.” Apparently we’re supposed to forget that Hitler wrote his famous book in prison and what is Hillary guilty of exactly?
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Old 09 October 2018, 01:01 PM
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I took that reaction to be sarcasm, not "I never heard such a thing."
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Old 09 October 2018, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I took that reaction to be sarcasm, not "I never heard such a thing."
I took it to be disbelief that some idiot would call the Democrats tyrannical.

And yes, I’m aware that Trump checks all the boxes for fascism…
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Old 09 October 2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dasla View Post
I used to think (after joining Snopes) that the difference between the left and right in America and the left in the right in say, Australia, is that the right in America the right was against more control whereas in Australia the right liked more control. Due to your war of independence and all that. But really the right in both countries are ok with control...as long as it of the right people.
The difference between the right and the left in America is in large part in what they want to control.

The right tends to want to control sexual behavior, and also often behavior they see as disrespectful of the way they think things ought to be. The left tends to want to control such things as pollution, financial behavior, and shutting people out of commerce because of such things as their sexual behavior.

I tend to think that the things the left wants controlled need controlling (though I sometime think a particular regulation is badly written), and most of the things the right wants controlled don't need controlling. Mileage obviously varies.
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Old 09 October 2018, 03:51 PM
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What thorny said. (Thanks for that -- I was having trouble articulating it.) Also, for the left, the owning of guns, and decisions of whom you hire and fire.

Like thorny locust, I agree that government should be involved in controlling those things, and should not be involved in the things the right wants to control.
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Old 09 October 2018, 03:58 PM
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The left wants to control the boardroom, the right wants to control the bedroom.
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  #16  
Old 10 October 2018, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Kavanaugh was not on trial with a possible prison sentence at stake. This was a job interview. The Constitution most certainly does not say 'with the advice and consent of the Senate, but the Senate must consent unless the nominee is adjudged guilty of a crime.'
.
That was how I felt about the Kavanaugh thing. The man was applying for a job and therefore, it was on his employers to thoroughly scrutinize what he may have said and done, then ask him some questions. Kavanaugh’s job as a prospective employee, was to sell himself, demonstrate why he should be hired for this position.

Though I tire of the “Accused Creep hasn’t been formally tried and convicted in court, therefore, it doesn’t matter” meme not just with Kavanaugh, but with all the other creeps revealed by the #MeToo movement. Getting fired from your job isn’t the same as going to jail. A studio has every right to say, “I don’t like the bad buzz around Kevin Spacey. Let’s fire him and see if we can continue House of Cards without him.”

The job interview metaphor is a good one, because if you were hiring somebody to work for you and called up an applicant’s references and looked into his background, wouldn’t you have every reason to be concerned if all anyone can talk about is what a creep So-and-So is? It’s possible that the prospective applicant could have run into a vindictive boss or coworker, but if accusations just keep stacking up everywhere he goes, then there’s something else going on and HR has every right to be concerned.
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Old 10 October 2018, 12:49 PM
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A friend gave a good analogy on FB: What if you were a hiring manager, and there were unsubstantiated reports that an applicant had assaulted someone. Would you say "oh well no proof" and hire him? And what if he then assaulted someone at work?

ETA: Shoot, people lose out on jobs because their credit score isn't high enough, even sometimes **because they don't already have a job.**
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Old 10 October 2018, 03:23 PM
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I do agree that for most jobs it shouldn’t matter you were doing 36 years ago if you aren’t currently doing the same bad behaviors and you’ve been acting decently for the last 12 years. People shouldn’t be anchored permanently by bad decisions no matter who they are.

But, they have to actually grow and change and demonstrate that they learned why their past behavior was harmful and inappropriate, if questions about their bad behavior come up.

Aside from everything about him, what I found the most infuriating thing about his story regarding his high school behavior was the lack of a coherent story arc and inconsistent character development. He had every opportunity to admit to generic yearbook bragging about things that were true but exaggerated (beach week, boofing, etc.). He could have even had some kind of humorous tale about want happens when you put fluids in your rectum not being pleasant and maybe he should have paid more attention in high school biology. It could have even been a humorous story about someone else, and it made into his yearbook because it was such a learning moment. He could have crafted guardrails for his behavior like ‘the first time I drank alcohol at a party I overdid and vomited in Squi’s trashcan, but I learned my lesson and was able to moderate alcohol consumption after that’. Story arc. You start naive, experience a consequence, and improve your decision making. His ‘I’ve been a paragon of virtue my whole 53 years’ was such a weak and obviously false tale that it was infuriating coming from someone who is supposed to be skilled in presenting evidence.
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  #19  
Old 10 October 2018, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiandmoi View Post
someone who is supposed to be skilled in presenting evidence.
Interestingly() apparently he has never had to do that outside of a classroom setting. He has never been an active lawyer. He was made a judge from a law clerk position.
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Old 10 October 2018, 07:56 PM
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That's not true. He was associate counsel in the Office of Independent Counsel as part of the Ken Starr investigation of the Clintons.

He was also Staff Secretary for GW Bush -- a high level position, though it is more of a political position, not a lawyer position.
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