"Put me in charge" welfare rant

[Esprise Me]

Originally Posted by Jahungo

Or a vasectomy, which would be closer.

Vasectomies are also cheaper than tubal ligations. I say we give all men until about age 25 or so to establish themselves financially, and if by then they can't support a child, give 'em the snip. That way, even if poor women get knocked up, all they have to do is make a list of all the men they slept with on the day they conceived, and we can hunt them down, test their DNA, and make the father pay for his mistake. Ta-da! No more welfare moms!

(In case it's not obvious, that was sarcasm...)

[smittykins]

Originally Posted by Esprise Me

Vasectomies are also cheaper than tubal ligations. I say we give all men until about age 25 or so to establish themselves financially, and if by then they can't support a child, give 'em the snip. That way, even if poor women get knocked up, all they have to do is make a list of all the men they slept with on the day they conceived, and we can hunt them down, test their DNA, and make the father pay for his mistake. Ta-da! No more welfare moms!

(In case it's not obvious, that was sarcasm...)

Then, as the icing on the cake, we'll make 'em get married! Who cares if they're miserable? You made your bed, kiddos, now lie in it...

[chillas]

Originally Posted by smittykins

You made your bed, kiddos, now lie in it...

Well, how do you think the trouble started in the first place?!

[ULTRAGOTHA]

Originally Posted by Lainie

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Betty was misinformed or outright lied to.

I'm not. I just don't know off the top of my head if a State can raise that minimum age on it's own. I didn't want to look up all 50 states, hence the question.

In California in the late 80s and early 90s you had to be 21 when you signed the papers (I was working in that field then and remember a story about a doctor who had the woman sign the papers the day before her 21st birthday. Despite following all the other timeliness rules, his claim was denied because she wasn't 21 when she signed). Rules on sterilization under Medicaid are strict. But the only age I've ever heard was 21.

[LizzyBean]

The "pay for other's mistakes" pissed me right the hell off. My "mistake" was having my husband leave me while I was a SAHM and din't have a job. The job I got payed minimum wage, which is not enough to pay for anything besides the basics, and I was paying child support at the time. I hate this crap.

[Dasla]

I am waiting for the line about mandatory euthanasia for people on retirment age, if you are too old to work, you are too old to live. We can no longer afford to support you, let alone your encreasing health costs. But you won't though cause in general the people who forward this crap fall into that age group (yes I am generalising)

Lizzybean I hate this crap too. Australia has a different system but my "mistake" was getting late on set epilepsy, which caused (minor) brain damage that means my memory is shot. I find it hard to learn new things or the methods needed to perform my usual career (clean room laboratory technician). The basic principals are the same in the different companies, the methods vary. It also makes it hard to complete the study I need to work in my desired career (library work).

It is hard enough to deal with all this without this sort of attitude. Luckly most people in my life are completely understanding.

[snopes]

Originally Posted by wanderwoman

If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, or smoke, then get a job.

So, no more stay-at-home mothers?

We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the "common good."

Socialist! Welcome to Amerika.

AND While you are on Gov't subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes, that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest.

Everyone who votes has a conflict of interest, as no one's interests align perfectly with greatest good.

[Kallah]

Originally Posted by Mickey Blue

Woah.. We could get free birth control for all women (or at least poor ones) if we start framing the debate in this way. We can even pull it off without it being mandatory, we can just use the same kind of tactics used when they go up against abortion, we say "Now we aren't saying that we should sterilize the poor.. How about we just (wink wink) give them free birth control (nudge nudge), I mean what's wrong with that right?

Several states have "Well Woman Health" programs that have little to do with women's health and everything to do with preventing poor women from having more children; I have yet to encounter any such program for men, but they might be out there. While they're all wrapped up in pretty pink and sold as "We care about women's health!" it's pretty obvious based on what they do and don't cover.

Illinois Healthy Woman Program: Illinois Healthy Women does not cover services that are not related to family planning (birth control) services; such as, surgeries, procedures or treatment for a medical condition (i.e., fibroids, cysts, or polyps in the breast or uterus, endometriosis, and blood clotting or fertility disorders).

You'd think cysts in one's breasts or uterus would be a woman's health issue, but nope!

Texas Women's Health is slightly more generous, in that it tests for non-birth control related diseases, but if you want to deal with them you're on your own: If a health problem such as diabetes or cancer is found, you will be referred to a doctor or clinic that can treat you. You might have to pay for those extra services.

Who knew breast or cervical cancer wasn't a woman's health thing?

Now, all that said, these are amazing programs for low-income women who cannot afford birth control screenings, appointments, or prescriptions. Every state I've checked has included sterilization, both tubal snipping and the newer essure procedure. They are a tremendous boon that should be encourage in states that do not have such programs, so long as they remain entirely voluntarily and don't actually fool anyone into believing they're about women's health.

[Jay Temple]

On the "don't get to vote" part: There is the same kind of conflict of interest in letting public servants vote, but especially police officers and those whose job is directly concerned with enforcing the laws. (No building codes means no building inspectors. No vice laws means no vice squad, etc.)

[Twankydillo]

With some people it takes either knowing people who need the safety net - or needing it themselves - to not resent people who do.

I've been jobless for well over a year, and claiming benefits for that. It's not pleasant, and it's barely any money. The biggest and silliest arguments I've seen is that I must be too picky, despite the fact that I've cleaned toilets for money. There's also this idea that you can work just anywhere if you ask, and that every job starts you on the ladder for every other job, or that if you have some skill in something then you must be able to get a job in it, like in The Sims.

[smittykins]

[So, no more stay-at-home mothers?

As long as somone else(read: not the gub'mint)is supporting them, I guess it's OK.

The biggest and silliest arguments I've seen is that I must be too picky, despite the fact that I've cleaned toilets for money. There's also this idea that you can work just anywhere if you ask, and that every job starts you on the ladder for every other job, or that if you have some skill in something then you must be able to get a job in it, like in The Sims.

Then there's the popular "But look at all the help-wanted ads in the paper!" Never mind that you might not be qualified for any of them...

[Sue]

When I was between jobs years ago, my father god love him, kept sending me advertisements for any job he saw that had the word library in it. It was at the same time flattering and frustrating. No dad I really wasn't (after 5 years out of library school) in anyway qualified to be the Director of a university library .

[queen of the caramels]

Originally Posted by smittykins

Then there's the popular "But look at all the help-wanted ads in the paper!" Never mind that you might not be qualified for any of them...

Or just as bad..over qualified for them . I doubt that many McD's is going to hire some-one with a PhD to flip burgers or WalMart a MBA to stock shelves regardless of how much that person wants a job.

[Dasla]

Originally Posted by Sue

When I was between jobs years ago, my father god love him, kept sending me advertisements for any job he saw that had the word library in it. It was at the same time flattering and frustrating. No dad I really wasn't (after 5 years out of library school) in anyway qualified to be the Director of a university library .

Of course so many people don't even understand that there are qualifications for library work, let alone different levels of library work. No it's not just putting books back on shelves .

The thing is, with government jobs (in Australia at least) every few years, to make sure that the have the best person for the job, you have to reapply. So they advertise the job and go through the whole process of looking for someone and usually appoint the same person. I think this even counts if you are a private business that does contract work for the government.

Many years ago, I applied for work, went through the whole process of writing the application, got to interview stage etc. Only to be told that the person that already had the job had been reappointed "So that's good" not for me it isn't.

For this, and many other reasons, means just because there are pages in the "help wanted" pages in the newspaper (how 20th century ) it doesn't mean finding work is easy.

[MichiganGirl]

Originally Posted by lord_feldon

Healthy women under age 65 who aren't pregnant probably aren't even eligible for Medicaid.

It depends on the state. It is correct for NJ, but not for Michigan. I don't know about the other 48.

[Dasla]

Originally Posted by Sue

When I was between jobs years ago, my father god love him, kept sending me advertisements for any job he saw that had the word library in it. It was at the same time flattering and frustrating. No dad I really wasn't (after 5 years out of library school) in anyway qualified to be the Director of a university library .

You also get the well meaning friends showing you ads for librarian jobs me: "I don't have the qualifications"
Them: "It doesn't say you need a qualifications"
Me: "It says librarian that means you need (here in Queensland) you need the Grad Dip in Library Studies!"

And they look at you doubtfully.

[Wolf333]

AND While you are on Gov't subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes, that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest.

So; farmers (or anyone working in the agricultural industry), miners (or anyone working in the coal or oil industries), military (or anyone working as a military contractor), teachers, all non-DOD government workers (and contractors), etc., etc. ...

Basically, anyone who would ever vote for their own interest can no longer vote.

Democracy.

[Spud Sabre]

Originally Posted by Dasla

You also get the well meaning friends showing you ads for librarian jobs me: "I don't have the qualifications"
Them: "It doesn't say you need a qualifications"
Me: "It says librarian that means you need (here in Queensland) you need the Grad Dip in Library Studies!"

And they look at you doubtfully.

I have a diploma in website design. I'm also part of an employment placement program. However, nobody I'm working on getting a job with is tech savvy. So, as far as they're concerned any "computer job" is in my field. And it doesn't matter how the computer is used. Even sending out invoices counts.

On top of that, I can't refuse to take any "computer job" or I'll be removed from the program, and they're "suggesting" jobs without regard for my (lack of) qualifications. Which is rather discomforting. There's just something off about answering "you have no prior sales experience. Why do you think you're qualified for this job?" with "I don't, but so-and-so is making me apply here". I guess I'll have to get over that, at least by the time I run into "So you have no experience with or even any apparent knowledge of Java..."

[Esprise Me]

Originally Posted by Wolf333

So; farmers (or anyone working in the agricultural industry), miners (or anyone working in the coal or oil industries), military (or anyone working as a military contractor), teachers, all non-DOD government workers (and contractors), etc., etc. ...

Just to be on the safe side, we'd better exclude the people who eat food from the agricultural industry, since that food is cheaper than it would otherwise be due to farm subsidies, and anyone who uses energy for the same reason, and anyone who went to public school or ever exercised the freedoms our soldiers protect...

[Tori]

Originally Posted by Dasla

The thing is, with government jobs (in Australia at least) every few years, to make sure that the have the best person for the job, you have to reapply. So they advertise the job and go through the whole process of looking for someone and usually appoint the same person. I think this even counts if you are a private business that does contract work for the government.

Is this something new? I did government contract work for years, and I don't recall ever having to reapply for my own job. I've never heard of this before.