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  #21  
Old 28 February 2012, 04:21 PM
kanazawa kanazawa is offline
 
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Originally Posted by flightsuit View Post
This would not have been possible. Though the Regal and Monte Carlo were both based on GM's G-body platform, they had no exterior sheet-metal in common, and their grilles were therefore not interchangeable; they simply would not have physically fit in each other's places.

Beyond that, I don't believe either car was ever assembled in Fremont (NUMMI's location), but if anybody knows otherwise, I would certainly defer to their knowledge.
They pretty much made all GM models at Fremont Assembly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremont_Assembly

What it looks like to me is they create a rolling chassis, stick on an engine and transmission, then drop the completed back half of the body (passenger compartment and trunk) on to the chassis. Then I assume they either build up or drop a completed front (fenders, hood, grill, etc) on the chassis body combo. So it seems like it could happen...

A little bay area car plant history: The original GM plant was in Oakland, then moved to Fremont, then Fremont Assembly became NUMMI. The original Ford plant is in Richmond, then it moved to San Jose. The Richmond factory is now part of the Rosie the Riveter national historic park, the the San Jose factory is now the Great Mall of the Bay Area:

http://www.nps.gov/rori/index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mall_of_the_Bay_Area
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  #22  
Old 28 February 2012, 08:46 PM
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WildaBeast WildaBeast is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flightsuit View Post
I'm just saying this really points to the apathy and shoddy standards of the automotive industry's malaise era.
I actually went back and re-listened to the entire story after I posted yesterday (It's very interesting if you have an hour to kill). Besides what you say about apathy and shoddy standards, it shows how completely differently GM and Toyota's philosophies were. GM pretty much emphasized quantity over quality -- just crank out as many cars as possible. If they're wrong, don't worry about it; we'll fix them later. Toyota completely turned that around -- if something's wrong fix it NOW, even if you have to stop the line, and that allowed them to build cars with much better quality.

Getting back to the OP, I don't know whether it's physically possible to produce the "three door" car described, but it sounds like that "we'll fix it later" attitude definitely resulted in cars with wrong parts coming off the line.
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  #23  
Old 28 February 2012, 09:04 PM
overyonder overyonder is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
Getting back to the OP, I don't know whether it's physically possible to produce the "three door" car described, but it sounds like that "we'll fix it later" attitude definitely resulted in cars with wrong parts coming off the line.
With a side with no B-pillar, the A+C pillars would have to be stronger, and the 2 door edges would have to fit tightly. My guess, no, not on the fly.

OY
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  #24  
Old 29 February 2012, 02:47 AM
kanazawa kanazawa is offline
 
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Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
GM pretty much emphasized quantity over quality -- just crank out as many cars as possible. If they're wrong, don't worry about it; we'll fix them later
I think the overriding philosophy was that the line never stops, no matter what. I think a lot of that comes from WW2--that we would win the war by sheer volume of production. I mean, read stories about the B-29. They would crank them out, then completely redo them in the parking lot.

Also interesting to note that of all the Japanese car companies at the end of the war, Toyota was never partnered with an American company (at the time I mean). And of course Honda didn't yet exist.
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  #25  
Old 08 January 2013, 09:18 AM
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Considering that the supports are only one item with opportunities for either 2 or 4 gates (unless one is considering one of the beginning three-door minivans), it seems unlikely that either the employees discovered a way to dangle an additional entrance or the personnel would neglect a details like a losing entrance. . . . . . . . . . .
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  #26  
Old 14 January 2013, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overyonder View Post
Of course there's the classics:

AMC was building cars made from much other car builders' existing parts. For instance, AMC built cars/Jeeps with the Turbo 400 transmission, which is a GM transmission.

OY
Nothing shocking here. AMC, being the small company that it was, sourced many parts from other manufacturers. My aunt's Matador had a Chrysler transmission, GM power steering, and GM ignition.
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  #27  
Old 14 January 2013, 11:07 AM
fitz1980 fitz1980 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overyonder View Post
Why is it necessary for VW to charge 3+ times
For the same reason that a pair of jeans with a designer label on them costs $60 while an off brand pair that may have been made in the same factory with the same materials costs $20.
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  #28  
Old 14 January 2013, 11:33 AM
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Don Enrico Don Enrico is offline
 
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...and a fake designer jeans that has been made in the same factory with the same materials costs 5.
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  #29  
Old 14 January 2013, 06:18 PM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debunker View Post
Nothing shocking here. AMC, being the small company that it was, sourced many parts from other manufacturers. My aunt's Matador had a Chrysler transmission, GM power steering, and GM ignition.
Rolls Royce even used GM transmission at that time.
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  #30  
Old 15 January 2013, 07:53 PM
kanazawa kanazawa is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM View Post
Rolls Royce even used GM transmission at that time.
So did Ferrari:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_400
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  #31  
Old 20 January 2013, 01:21 PM
jjk308
 
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When I had Volvos back in the 1970's I found a Westinghouse alternator used by AMC was near identical, would fit and cost 1/3 the Volvo labeled alternator. And when I had a couple of Infinitis I found a dealership that imported gray market parts from japan at a small fraction of the Infiniti dealer prices.

It's typical for parts to cost you 3 to 4 times what the manufacturer prices them at when building a car.
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  #32  
Old 09 March 2013, 04:12 PM
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Not_Done_Living Not_Done_Living is offline
 
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Chrysler Workers Deliberately Sabotage Ram Production – Quality Issues?

In what could be the most surprising news of the year, it seems Chrysler-Fiat employees are deliberately sabotaging production on the 2013 Ram 1500 pickup over “poor morale.”

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...on-Ram-quality
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  #33  
Old 10 March 2013, 03:33 AM
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Latiam Latiam is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_of_Sevens View Post
http://www.saturnpedia.org/what-happ...-3-door-saturn

Saturn made these for a while. I have one. It'd not so great in practice as it has the disadvantage of a two-door (can't get out without help from the front) along with the shortened doors common on a four-door. This mean leaning the seats to get into the back isn't really viable. The only access to the back seat is through the driver's-side rear door.
You were theoretically supposed to be able to pull a lever that pushed the driver's seat back forward. Then you could reach the handle, which was built into the door where it meets the frame and therefore inaccessible unless the driver side door was open. This would also aid in getting out of the car.
In practice? You couldn't reach the lever. If you could twist your wrist around in a sort of contortionist way, you could open the door. When we got the quad coupe (those doors on both sides), I found I could open the right one but not the left.
(We bought 6 Saturns. We still have our last two. I am having a hard time figuring out what the heck I'm going to replace my Ion with when the time comes.)
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  #34  
Old 11 March 2013, 10:45 AM
UrbanLegends101 UrbanLegends101 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitz1980 View Post
For the same reason that a pair of jeans with a designer label on them costs $60 while an off brand pair that may have been made in the same factory with the same materials costs $20.
Many years ago, there was a shirt factory in my home town in east central Georgia, and the manager told me that they did shirts for many different brands.

But he said the materials weren't the same. More expensive branded shirts were made with better materials.

Back in those days, there were three shirt factories in the county. Today, none.
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