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Old 30 November 2018, 06:17 PM
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E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
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Default "The ACLU Declines to Defend Civil Rights"

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...tle-ix/576142/

The article concerns the new rules put forth by Education Secretary Betsy de Vos regarding sexual misbehavior on campus. The ACLU put out a statement saying that the new rules (which require a board of review and "clear and convincing" evidence against the alleged perpetrator, as opposed to the "preponderance of the evidence" standard previously used) "inappropriately favor the accused." The author argues that this is an astonishing statement, coming from an organization that is often lambasted for protecting the rights of people accused of all manner of crimes.

I'm not 100% sure what to think at this point. I can't favor anything that makes it more difficult for victims to come forward. At the same time, it does bother me that a false accusation can and occasionally has resulted in substantial harm to the accused. Should the fact that such false accusations are far rarer than sexual assaults and harassment matter?

As a long-time supporter (and current member) of the ACLU, I have concerns, although I need to look at the other side of the case more closely. Curious how others react.
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Old 30 November 2018, 06:26 PM
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"The author argues that this is an astonishing statement, coming from an organization that is often lambasted for protecting the rights of people accused of all manner of crimes."

The ACLU can make a very principled distinction between those accused of crimes and those who are involved in an administrative process designed to protect students. There may be questions about how much the procedural protections can be scaled back without violating due process. But I think the ACLU can conclude that they did not need to be *increased*, or at least not to this degree.
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Old 30 November 2018, 06:31 PM
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Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
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IMO, yes, the fact that false accusations are far rarer than sexual assaults and harassment matters.

Until we, as a society, stop assuming that false accusations are the prevailing mode, the victim is much more likely to not report and/or be vilified for reporting than the assailant is for his actions. The first step toward changing society is to encourage victims to come forward and to subject all accusations to investigation by neutral parties. Any official steps that serve to discourage reporting are steps in the wrong direction.

Seaboe
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Old 30 November 2018, 06:55 PM
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The article starts with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atlantic
Last week, the NRA kept defending gun rights,
I missed where the NRA weighed in on the EJ Bradford case. As far as I knew, the NRA was continuing their pattern of defending gun rights for white people, and studiously ignoring cases about black people. I guess in that respect, the NRA is doing what it's always done.

As to the specifics here, I would think that the difference between a court of law and a hearing at a school would mean something. If someone tried to pass a law to change the due process considerations for sexual assault cases in criminal court, I have no doubt that the ACLU would be among the first to bring a constitutional challenge. But this is more to do with actually meeting the requirements of title IX. This seems more like the ACLU deciding that title IX, which applies to schools and was created because of the clear discrimination going on in schools, is in need of support at this point.

There is certainly room for disagreement here, and IMO room for improvement of the current process. But the author of this piece is twisting a whole lot to make it seem like the ACLU has abandoned core principles over this.
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Old 30 November 2018, 07:24 PM
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E. Q. Taft E. Q. Taft is offline
 
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From the ACLU.org website:

Quote:
Standards of proof are integral to fair proceedings. The customary standard of proof for civil proceedings, where both sides have something to lose and there is no reason to favor one side over the other, requires proof by a preponderance of the evidence, which is more than 50 percent. The preponderance of the evidence standard applies in all other sexual harassment proceedings and should apply here as well. Previous Department of Education guidance adopted that standard of proof. But the new regulation would allow schools to use a “clear and convincing evidence” standard, which favors the respondent by finding against complainants even where it is more likely than not that their account is accurate. There is no reason to weight the scales against complainants in civil disciplinary proceedings, and doing so will predictably result in findings for respondents even where it is more likely than not that the assault took place.
Put that way (and presuming it is accurate, which I have no reason to doubt) it seems considerably less alarming. (If they supported lowering the standards of proof in a criminal proceeding, I would absolutely object.)

(I should also have noted that the rules put forth be DeVos also make other changes, such as narrowing the definition of sexual misconduct, that are absolutely objectionable.)
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