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  #161  
Old 01 October 2018, 03:29 PM
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GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopher View Post
Anyone other than a cop doing this would be up for murder and looking at a death sentence.
Do you have an example of a similar case where this actually happened or is this just one of those things that "everybody knows"? Because people accidentally shoot people who live with them and many times charges are not even filed.
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  #162  
Old 01 October 2018, 03:37 PM
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How would the death penalty even apply?
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  #163  
Old 01 October 2018, 03:48 PM
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If the "accidentally entering the wrong apartment part" was considered to be breaking and entering, home invasion or similar felony, the felony murder rule could make the killing a capital crime. But I doubt any truly accidental incident like this would be B&E or home invasion as there is no intent to commit a crime.
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  #164  
Old 02 October 2018, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
If the "accidentally entering the wrong apartment part" was considered to be breaking and entering, home invasion or similar felony, the felony murder rule could make the killing a capital crime. But I doubt any truly accidental incident like this would be B&E or home invasion as there is no intent to commit a crime.
How do we know she "accidentally entered the apartment"? The only evidence of that seems to be what she says. If the situation was reversed, a black male entered a white female police officers apartment and ended up killing her I'm pretty sure a murder charge would be considered.
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  #165  
Old 02 October 2018, 01:57 AM
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We don't know, but as of right now the manslaughter charge she has been arrested on is based on her accidentally entering the apartment. So it makes the most sense to compare the charges a civilian would hypothetically face when accidentally entering the wrong apartment and killing the resident to the charges Guyger actually faces when the current narrative is that she accidentally entered the wrong apartment and killed the resident.

ETA: Your situation adds on a number of other biased comparisons than gopher's. Male vs female. Civilian vs cop. White vs black. Each of those would likely slant the charges more towards first degree murder. I was taking issue with gopher's claim that the prosecutor would press 1st degree murder charges on the sole change of the shooter being a civilian.
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  #166  
Old 02 October 2018, 07:05 PM
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Now's as good (or bad) a time as any, I guess, to note that I do have more... I own't say sympathy, but... understanding? for a police officer who shoots someone in an (alleged) case of mistaken/imperfect self-defense than anyone else.

My logic goes that if someone brings a gun into a situation where it doesn't belong (be it to a bar, to the supermarket, a public roadway, wherever) and then they use it wrong, it goes right back to the whole "why were you walking around with a gun in the first place?"

When it comes to off-duty police officers, on the other hand, I can understand how they might get into a mindset of "someone who hates cops or who hates me because I arrested them five years ago could gun me down" and decide they need a gun at all times. Justified by actual data or not, that kind of paranoia can be hard to shake. It's a terribly unfortunate mindset to have, but I can understand it better than I can someone who just wants to feel like the most powerful person in the room or a superhero in waiting.
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  #167  
Old 02 October 2018, 07:47 PM
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Hmm. I don't know. I think paranoia -- sometimes justified -- is a reason that lots of people wind up carrying guns . . . and mistakenly shooting people for that matter. I'd say it's a great deal of the reason gang members carry guns. They are worried about retaliation for things they've done. So I would not really want to validate that aspect.

The one place where her being a cop comes into it for me (not necessarily under Texas law, though) is if the door swung open as she tried her key* and she saw someone inside who also saw her. I think anyone not a police officer should get away and then call police in that (perceived) situation. Since she is an officer, her instincts are different and she could appropriately** confront someone in some such circumstances.

None of that should be taken to mean that I think what she did was right, or not subject to criminal prosecution. It's just the only part of my thinking on the subject that takes into account her profession.

* There seem to be a few different versions or possibilities of how the door came to be open. I'm specifically considering this possibility. My view might be different if she noticed that the door was ajar before opening it, and my view is definitely different if after her key didn't work, she banged on the door and demanded that someone inside open it.

** If she was impaired by tiredness and/or intoxicants, confronting someone on purpose would not be appropriate.
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  #168  
Old 02 October 2018, 08:52 PM
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Right, right... it’s, uh hard to explain and what you’ve written pretty well captures what I’m thrusting at, but to clarify, if I can, for me it comes back to why someone is "paranoid" (or feels they need a gun on them) to begin with. (G)you thinking the world is a dangerous place and that "good guys" with guns make it safer leads me to think (g)you aren’t too good at analyzing data. There’s no (or not much) shame in that—plenty of people are bad at understanding data and statistics for a wide variety of reasons. Some of them even become President.

But. (G)you tell me it’s because your job requires you to have a gun and to maybe confront other armed people, then I can kind of see how that might carry-over into your free time. It was hard enough to switch off coming home from Iraq, I can’t imagine what it’s like having it come down to a commute of just a few miles or even yards to separate you from "I need to have a gun at all times and be prepared to use it" vs "I’m home now, everything is fine."
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  #169  
Old 04 October 2018, 03:37 AM
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I cannot tell you the number of times I have had people threaten me. Threaten retaliation against me and my family. Make threats to my family that I won't repeat here. It wears on you. I run into people I have arrested occasionally when I'm off duty. When I am with my family. We not to long ago had a suspect who was following officers in their personal vehicles at the end of their shift. A lengthy investigation later discovered a notebook with officers home addresses, and GPS info determined they were going to officers homes at all hours of the day and night. It can make you a bit sensitive.

As far as if I came home and found the door ajar or unsecured, I would enter my home. Cautiously and make others stay outside until I had cleared it, because most likely I or a family member did not secure it properly. First sign of forced entry, or evidence someone has been or is still inside I would back out and call on duty officers to respond.
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