snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Soapbox Derby

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16 August 2013, 03:09 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,210
Canada Gruesome anti-abortion pamphlets targeting Conservative MPs

Have you checked your mail today?

If not, you may want to do so very cautiously.

A Calgary-based anti-abortion group is now distributing thousands of flyers — with explicit images of aborted fetuses — to homes located in ridings of Conservative MPs who voted against an abortion bill last September. The private members bill, Bill M-312, would have required a Parliamentary committee to study the point at which a baby becomes a human being.

In each case, the flyers — produced by the Canadian Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform — include a picture of the MP, a gruesome image of a bloody fetus and message urging residents to contact to their member of parliament "if you are offended by what you see."


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canad...163229174.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16 August 2013, 06:24 PM
Nana M Nana M is offline
 
Join Date: 28 December 2006
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 645
Default

Why, of why must we import the very worst aspects of the US. Aren't there any useful aspects we could try for once? Or is Harper so wedded to his Republican advisers that he misses what happens when draconian policies are introduced and groups like this one are encouraged by his high handed approach to 'ruling' the country!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16 August 2013, 07:19 PM
Esprise Me's Avatar
Esprise Me Esprise Me is offline
 
Join Date: 02 October 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,876
Default

Quote:
"No, they aren’t too happy that we’ve disturbed their bliss by showing them that abortion is, indeed, horrible and gruesome."
Dude, you know what else is gruesome? Every surgery ever performed. Not just the ones that go wrong, but the ones that save lives, restore function to and relieve pain from seriously injured people, and vastly improve overall quality of life. You know what's not especially gruesome? SIDS. Most of the time, the baby just goes to sleep and never wakes up. For hours after it happens, a casual observer might even fail to notice. So I trust you see the problem with measuring morality by gruesomeness.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16 August 2013, 07:25 PM
Chloe's Avatar
Chloe Chloe is offline
 
Join Date: 13 September 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,316
Default

You know what else is gruesome? Septicemia.

In fact, I once had an anti-abortion fellow who regularly carried a giant full-color sign with a picture of the infamous severed fetus head over a jar complain about someone carrying a black and white poster of a woman who had died after an illegal abortion, because "Women and children might see it."

Of course, you could see her bottom in the pic, so there's that.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16 August 2013, 07:43 PM
quink quink is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2005
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 3,193
Default

I hate these guys. Everyone I know in the city hates these guys, and I think they've actually driven some pro-lifers away from wanting to be associated with the assholes who hang giant banners of bloody fetuses off highway overpasses. It's bad (well, good) when even the angry redneck comment writers in our trashy right wing garbage paper think they go too far. They were protesting just down the block from my home yesterday, and I was tempted to print up some cards to let them know that for every picture of medical waste they flash in my face, I'll be making a donation to planned parenthood.

What I don't get is how this is even supposed to be an effective strategy. Most pro lifers try to tug on your heart strings by convincing you that women are aborting a precious little baby. These pictures are just gross and, well... Medical waste. If I was in the fence, these guys would send me straight into the pro choice camp. As someone who's already horrified at the idea of being pregnant, seeing these images would make me feel even more like I had some alien parasite growing inside my body. Of course, it's not about stopping abortion by making a rational argument. It's about holding everyone who happens to come in contact with them hostage until their demands are met. They could just as easily be posting pictures of dead kittens or anything else that the public doesn't want to see. It's a bullying tactic - were going to bother you as much as we legally can until we get our way.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16 August 2013, 07:50 PM
A Turtle Named Mack's Avatar
A Turtle Named Mack A Turtle Named Mack is offline
 
Join Date: 21 June 2007
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 21,451
Default

I have been present for three live births, one of them by c-section. Miracle of life, blah, blah, blah - it ain't pretty. Oh, they aren't too bad when they get all washed down and swaddled, though they are still kind of lumpy. But by whatever means, it is not elegant or beautiful. And as Esprise Me notes, every surgery is basically ugly. You may as well take a picture of a cancerous tumor and argue that they too should not be removed because they are ugly. There is a legitimate balance to be reached between liberty interests of the mother and the life interests of the developing baby, but this is not the way to engage in a discussion of that balance.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16 August 2013, 08:11 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
Join Date: 14 December 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 24,025
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quink View Post
What I don't get is how this is even supposed to be an effective strategy
Basically, they hope to intimidate people from accessing services. That's their main goal. I also suspect that, psychologically, they get off on bullying people, especially women.

Let's face it. They are a waste of space. They don't even bug me anymore unless they upset a patient.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16 August 2013, 08:18 PM
Chloe's Avatar
Chloe Chloe is offline
 
Join Date: 13 September 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 39,316
Default

Here's a new tactic: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013...tive-protests/

In Kansas, abortion opponents are trying to close a clinic on the grounds that their own actions there make it unsuitable:

Quote:
According to the Wichita Eagle, abortion opponents are citing several reasons that the clinic shouldn’t be allowed to operate in the community: several gun incidents that occurred when Tiller practiced there, the lack of communication between the clinic’s security staff and the anti-abortion activists to “defuse violence” before it occurs, the level of “antagonism” between the the clinic’s escorts and the anti-choice protesters, and the fact that it may be “inappropriate” for school children to see graphic signs and protests affiliated with the clinic.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 16 August 2013, 08:19 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,210
Default

In the specific case of the OP what they really want to accomplish is to hold the conservative party accountable for what they assume is a core ideal of the party. I don't know too many conservatives who aren't against abortion but the conservative party in power now is just pragmatic enough to know this is a fight they are not going to win. To be honest I'm not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand I'm glad this is a non-starter in terms of trying to change the law (at least for now) but on the other hand if they really think abortion is murder how can they sit back and let the little babies be killed if there is a way to stop it?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16 August 2013, 08:32 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 26,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
In Kansas, abortion opponents are trying to close a clinic on the grounds that their own actions there make it unsuitable:
It doesn't really matter. If it is a real protest, the building has a way to shut the whole thing down.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 16 August 2013, 09:06 PM
NorthernLite's Avatar
NorthernLite NorthernLite is offline
 
Join Date: 22 March 2006
Location: High Level, AB
Posts: 3,463
Moose

Quote:
Originally Posted by quink View Post

What I don't get is how this is even supposed to be an effective strategy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo. View Post
Basically, they hope to intimidate people from accessing services. That's their main goal. I also suspect that, psychologically, they get off on bullying people, especially women.
Intimidation might work if you were going into a separate abortion clinic but I don't know of any abortion clinics here in Alberta. When I accompanied an ex she went into a general hospital. There is no way of knowing what she was having done. I don't doubt many of these protesters get off on the bullying aspect. My brother's wife is constantly bombarding Facebook with anti abortion stuff and I find her to be a bully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I don't know too many conservatives who aren't against abortion but the conservative party in power now is just pragmatic enough to know this is a fight they are not going to win.
My cynical belief is that Conservative MPs who bring up the abortion debate in caucus Know this. They can tell their constituents that they have presented their case but unfortunately it was turned down. Job done.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16 August 2013, 09:26 PM
quink quink is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2005
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 3,193
Default

Canada has a weird dynamic when it comes to conservatism. There will always be people who are right leaning fiscally, but many of the social issues just won't fly if you want to work on a federal level. I think Harper's mostly harmless when it comes to pushing us backwards on social issues, because the second he crosses the line it'll be suicide for him across most of the country (But even if I'm not as worried about him as I was about Bush in the US, I still refuse to support the man or any of his party because of the material I got from his office when I lived in his riding. No, fighting so that several of my friends and family don't have the right to get married is not 'looking out for my interests').

From living in the most conservative province, you see that weird split here too. A lot of rural towns go full fire and brimstone Tory, but in the cities it's like the people who are conservative try to completely divorce themselves from the moral/social side of it and focus entirely on money. Calgary itself is surprisingly liberal - all you have to do is look at our mayor. Even in the 15 years I've been here, there's been a pretty dramatic shift. While I don't think Alberta will ever go liberal, I also don't think there will be as much tolerance for bigotry.

eta:

Calgary has at least one abortion clinic that I know of, but I don't think it's obvious. This group doesn't just 'protest' in places where women might be getting an abortion - they're everywhere. They park themslves downtown, they stalk busy train stations, they hang giant banners over the city's busiest road during rush hour, and they drive a NFBSKing panel truck plastered with fetuses. Like I said, I don't think it's actually about convincing anyone of anything at this point, it's about being loud and obnoxious enough that people will give into their demands to make them go away.

As much as I want to argue, or throw pictures of cancerous ovaries at them in return, I really try to just pretend they're invisible. I don't want to give them even a fraction of the attention they crave.

Last edited by quink; 16 August 2013 at 09:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16 August 2013, 09:54 PM
Esprise Me's Avatar
Esprise Me Esprise Me is offline
 
Join Date: 02 October 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,876
Default

There's a similar urban/liberal divide in the U.S., too. The structure of the electoral college has helped perpetuate the nonsense notion of red states and blue states, but most of the major cities, even in the South, lean liberal, while most of the rural areas, even in places like New England and the West Coast, lean conservative.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 16 August 2013, 10:22 PM
NorthernLite's Avatar
NorthernLite NorthernLite is offline
 
Join Date: 22 March 2006
Location: High Level, AB
Posts: 3,463
Moose

But here red is Liberal and blue is Conservative.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 16 August 2013, 10:29 PM
quink quink is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2005
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 3,193
Default

And in some provinces we mix things up by adding in some legitimate orange and green (and if Nenshi ever goes federal, maybe purple).

We're a colourful country.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 16 August 2013, 10:57 PM
A Turtle Named Mack's Avatar
A Turtle Named Mack A Turtle Named Mack is offline
 
Join Date: 21 June 2007
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 21,451
Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by quink View Post
And in some provinces we mix things up by adding in some legitimate orange and green (and if Nenshi ever goes federal, maybe purple).
Nenshi? I know about Nunavut. What's Nenshi? It sounds like a type of sushi.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 16 August 2013, 11:00 PM
Nana M Nana M is offline
 
Join Date: 28 December 2006
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 645
Default

Here in BC, you arrive in the 'Bible Belt' by crossing an invisible line on the Frasier Hwy that takes you from the laissez faire greater Vancouver area to the towns where there are an equal number of pubs and churches! The joke is that you could run a frog and he'd get in if his politics where conservative enough (but not a large c Conservative. They are not allowed out here).
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 16 August 2013, 11:00 PM
Esprise Me's Avatar
Esprise Me Esprise Me is offline
 
Join Date: 02 October 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLite View Post
But here red is Liberal and blue is Conservative.
Pretty much everywhere else, too. We just like to be different. You can keep your metric system, too!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 16 August 2013, 11:57 PM
quink quink is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2005
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 3,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
Nenshi? I know about Nunavut. What's Nenshi? It sounds like a type of sushi.
Naheed Nenshi is Calgary's mayor (our liberal, Muslim, geeky, urbanist, and possibly-gay-according-to-some mayor - in other words, the last thing you'd expect Canada's version of Houston to elect). Purple was/is his campaign colour and he frequently wears it (I think it's a subtle nod to not aligning with a specific party. Plus, he likes purple). He's generally very well liked in the city, especially after his handling of the major floods in June. After a wave of mayoral scandals out East, there were a lot of Toronto folks asking if we could trade, and lots of calls for Nenshi to go into provincial or federal politics. Which would be a waste, because he's a very, very good municipal politician.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 17 August 2013, 12:04 AM
FullMetal FullMetal is offline
 
Join Date: 19 December 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 1,376
Default

I never really thought of Calgary as being very liberal, but i know it's changing quite a bit. and Nenshi is a great mayor, I'm personally envious that he's in Calgary. He's a great leader and will probably run for provincial or even federal politics in coming years.

Nenshi is the mayor of Calgary.

Also stand-alone abortion clinics, there are a few in Alberta, the Morgentaler clinic in Edmonton is one. (and one that tends to attract protesters) I remember when it opened it had a lot of protesters.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Texas Lawmakers Too Busy Targeting Abortion to Deal With Exploding Fertilizer Plant firefighter_raven Soapbox Derby 3 07 July 2013 06:02 PM
Kansas lawmakers pass sweeping anti-abortion legislation snopes Soapbox Derby 8 08 April 2013 04:07 AM
Britons want to know what possessed officials targeting apostrophes snopes Social Studies 21 02 April 2013 03:00 PM
Why U.S. Politicians Think Americans Are So Conservative When They're Not Simply Madeline Soapbox Derby 6 05 March 2013 08:41 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.