Bananas Monkey Selfie Case Leaves Photographer Bankrupt

[snopes]

Originally Posted by ganzfeld

Not seeing any training there any more than a fisher trains a fish to bite a hook by baiting it and casting it correctly through trial and error.

I think any reasonable person can see there's a vast difference between simply casting food in front of an animal and guiding a monkey into triggering the shutter on a camera while looking into the lens. The former is no form of training at all; the latter at least arguably is.

[ganzfeld]

I agree that there could be such a difference, for example if the animals had been given some reward. It sounds very much like the photographer learned how to place the cameras such that the animals' natural inclination to look at themselves in the lens would lead them to inadvertently hit the plunger. It's not clear from what's given in the quotes I've seen but I don't seen any evidence of training (which to me implies some kind of punishment or reward but I suppose could be done by other means).

And, not to belabour the point but, even if there was training, as there obviously is in the case of Muybridge's horse or any other number of animals trained to trigger shots - or perform for shots - it doesn't (necessarily) mean that the trained animal gets the copyright or the photographer loses his.

[Esprise Me]

Originally Posted by ASL

Wouldn't he be able to recover court costs from PETA?

Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill

This is the type of case that makes me wish we had frivolous lawsuit protection like they do in Hungary. If you take someone to court there and the judge rules decides your case is frivolous, you have to pay the court and lawyer fees of the person you sued.

We do have some protections along those lines in the form of Rule 11 and its state-by-state versions. It's not as simple as the losing plaintiff always pays laywer fees and court costs, but truly frivolous suits can result in sanctions that shift the defendant's costs to the plaintiff. It has to be more than just something you or I might call frivolous based on how silly it sounds, though; advancing novel legal theories for the purpose of expanding or altering case law is generally protected, even if you're unsuccessful. It seems clear that's what PETA was trying to do here--get a court to recognize a monkey's right to a photo he took as part of a wedge strategy to grant animals more of the rights typically reserved for humans across the board. I'm not an expert in this area but I'd say PETA's argument was stupid enough to lose the case but not stupid enough to get sanctioned for trying.

[Little Pink Pill]

Thank you for explaining that, Esprise Me! It's a shame this guy has to pay the price for PETA's strategy, especially because there's no evidence that he did something injurious or cruel to the monkey in question.

[Mouse]

Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter

There are legitimate groups that monitor and advocate for animal welfare.

PETA's primary purpose seems to be to make them look bad by association.

Hence my conspiracy theory that they are secretly a front for the meat industry.

I know that likely isn't true, but conspiracy theories are better than reality, due to a sense of internal logic.

Though seriously, NFBSK PETA! May they never get laid and may they step on nothing but legos in the dark.

[crocoduck_hunter]

Given that PETA actually does seem like a FAUX News strawman of an animal welfare organization, you might not actually be wrong, Mouse.

[DawnStorm]

Originally Posted by Mouse

Hence my conspiracy theory that they are secretly a front for the meat industry.

I know that likely isn't true, but conspiracy theories are better than reality, due to a sense of internal logic.

Though seriously, NFBSK PETA! May they never get laid and may they step on nothing but legos in the dark.

So you don't want the female members to see any meat at all? Hey, it's consistent.

PETA-- I don't like 'em either.

[Psihala]

A lawsuit over who owns the copyright to selfie photographs snapped by a monkey has ended in a settlement before a federal court could answer the novel legal question.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monkey-...ta-settlement/

[DawnStorm]

Here's an update: https://wtop.com/animals-pets/2018/0...onkey-selfies/