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  #41  
Old 16 January 2014, 02:38 PM
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Even here in Canada, bars would have two separate sections with different doors. One was labelled "Ladies", the other "Escorts". Women had to enter by that door and could not go into the "men only" section. Some old bars had their entrance labels as fancy signs, or even cut into stonework. (Some very old elementary schools still have separate "BOYS" and "GIRLS" door labels, with the lables cut into stonework as well - this is buildings built between, say, 1920, and WW2.)
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  #42  
Old 16 January 2014, 02:39 PM
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Mind you modern TV shows are sometimes shocking.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/25755552
"yellowing-up" is no better than blacking up surely?
Though I'm not a fan of the show, the Neil Patrick Harris character comes across as a border-line rapist, the way he preys on emotionally vulnerable women.
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  #43  
Old 16 January 2014, 02:47 PM
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In another way, I watched the infamous "Puppy Episode" of the Ellen sitcom (when she came out) and even though I lived through the era and remember it fairly well, I still can't quite wrap my mind around what was so upsetting about it to so many people, or why she lost so many sponsors. Later episodes, maybe. But that one?
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  #44  
Old 16 January 2014, 03:42 PM
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I guess I'm kind of a closet Leave It to Beaver fan. Corny, of course, but some of the themes I remember in various plots: divorce, alcoholism, credit card debt, cross-dressing*, underage drinking / smoking. It wasn't a matter of Ward saying "Don't do that" but it showed how parents being upfront with their kids rather than talking around something is usually the best policy.

*Wally has to put on a dress for a school play and refuses; Ward tells him basically to never take himself so seriously that he can't laugh at himself.
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  #45  
Old 16 January 2014, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
I was watching historical footage of JFK's assassination, when the news readers cut in to the programs and in the immediate next few hours. I was amazed how many were smoking on TV, with ashtrays on their desks.
I've heard the Tonight Show used to allow guests to smoke for a long time, with long time smoker Johnny Carson also lighting up.

Well into the 1970s Irish comedian Dave Allen used to both drink & smoke while performing his monologues from a chair with an ashtray & glass holder built into the arms.

Certainly I can't think of anyone presenting a show in the 1980s while smoking.

Even in the original version of The Office someone smoking in a common room in 2001-2 seemed a little behind the times. All the offices I've worked in since 1998 have expected staff to smoke outside.
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  #46  
Old 19 January 2014, 01:00 PM
mcolakis mcolakis is offline
 
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No need to apologize for liking Leave It To Beaver, Hoitoider. There were some serious issues raised, as you point out. There was also an episode about marrying too young. Ryan O'Neal played the husband. To me, one startling thing in that show was how often Ward created problems instead of solving them--as when he talked up the importance of the school play so much that poor Beaver was a nervous wreck.

Speaking of old shows, The Donna Reed Show took on prescription drug abuse when a flunking athlete asked Dr. Stone for an amphetamines prescription to study for his exams. When Dr. Stone refused, the guy forged the signature by using a prescription pad that had an imprint of the doctor's signature. Of course it all turned out OK--the athlete passed the exams without drugs--but it was still a serious issue for the times.

There was a Family Affair episode where little Buffy asks her teenage sister Cissy for advice on winning over her crush. Cissy tells Buffy the boy doesn't like her because she gets better grades than he does. So Buffy bombs a spelling test on purpose, but he still doesn't like her. That was when she learns changing who you are to try to get a fellow is stupid--a nice message when girls were still being told to "play dumb."

I found M*A*S*H more annoying when Hawkeye became a male feminist than when he was sexist, because Alan Alda was obviously using the character as a mouthpiece for his own views rather than depicting real growth in Hawkeye. The show remained male-dominated in any event--as many as six men had their names in the opening credits, but only one woman. I found All in the Family much more realistic about 70's men and their attitudes to women--liberal Mike was not much more progressive than reactionary Archie. He could revise his attitudes occasionally--as when he learned that a female doctor had removed his appendix--but he always looked down on his wife.

The episode of Maude where she chose an abortion is still pretty surprising considering how often shows resort to a cop-out miscarriage.

The Honeymooners draws ire for its "Pow, right in the kisser" running "joke", but it could be pretty progressive about women for its time. In one episode, Alice complains that her housework never ends and she never gets a vacation, as opposed to Ralph in his eight hour a day job. In another episode, Ralph had to cope with jealousy when Alice got a job where she was the only woman in the office. It was only a temporary arrangement, but still...
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  #47  
Old 20 January 2014, 02:47 AM
catty5nutz catty5nutz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Davies View Post
I've heard the Tonight Show used to allow guests to smoke for a long time, with long time smoker Johnny Carson also lighting up.

Well into the 1970s Irish comedian Dave Allen used to both drink & smoke while performing his monologues from a chair with an ashtray & glass holder built into the arms.

Certainly I can't think of anyone presenting a show in the 1980s while smoking.

Even in the original version of The Office someone smoking in a common room in 2001-2 seemed a little behind the times. All the offices I've worked in since 1998 have expected staff to smoke outside.
I saw Stanley Kubrick's The Shining a couple of weeks back. One of the things I noticed, was that Wendy was smoking while Danny was around. I sort of wondered, when they show smoking scenes in the film, are the actors actually doing it, or pretending? Back in 1980, it might have still have been semi-acceptable to actually smoke on set with a child around.

Not today, methinks.
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  #48  
Old 20 January 2014, 02:53 AM
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I imagine some actors are really doing it while others are pretending. Tom Hanks was interviewed recently for his role in Saving Mr. Banks and he explained some of the new ratings rules. Apparently, now, you can show smoking, but it'll get a higher rating (I think a cigarette being smoked in a movie is now an automatic PG-13 rating.) For that movie, they just had a scene where he puts a cigarette out, to at least give some realistic portrayal of Walt Disney, who smoked all the time. But he couldn't actually smoke in the movie, because they wanted it to have a family friendly rating.

I found this article about non-smokers playing smoker roles.

Quote:
Actors who aren't tobacco users can choose from one of the many herbal cigarettes on the market. (Generally, advertising for these products targets tobacco smokers who are having trouble quitting or people who want to look cool and fit in but want something healthier than tobacco, pitches that have raised eyebrows at enforcement agencies, as you might expect.) Herbal cigarettes are made with various supposedly innocuous substances, including clover flowers, marshmallow leaves, and rose petals, and may be infused with ginseng, vanilla, menthol, or other substances to improve the taste - which, it must be said, is often surprisingly nasty for the first-time smoker.
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  #49  
Old 20 January 2014, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catty5nutz View Post
I saw Stanley Kubrick's The Shining a couple of weeks back. One of the things I noticed, was that Wendy was smoking while Danny was around. I sort of wondered, when they show smoking scenes in the film, are the actors actually doing it, or pretending? Back in 1980, it might have still have been semi-acceptable to actually smoke on set with a child around.

Not today, methinks.
I remember thinking the same thing when I saw it in a film class a couple of years ago.

That reminds me of another one- when I saw Dirty Harry for the first time and they had a scene where Harry and his partner went to the San Francisco Airport and walked right through to one of the terminals so they could get lunch at a burger stand. No airport security at all: boy did that seem weird.
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  #50  
Old 20 January 2014, 04:23 AM
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In the late 70s when The Shining was made I don't think much thought was given to smoking around children. Smoking sections weren't separated from non smoking sections at that time and there wasn't much talk about second hand smoke.
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  #51  
Old 20 January 2014, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
In the late 70s when The Shining was made I don't think much thought was given to smoking around children. Smoking sections weren't separated from non smoking sections at that time and there wasn't much talk about second hand smoke.
I was a kid in the late 1970s-1980s, but I do remember smoking still being semi-acceptable. Both my parents were strongly against smoking, but they felt that they had to provide ashtrays for guests who did smoke. There were a few places that banned smoking, but it wasn't enforced by law. It wasn't until the early 1980s that the law required that health warnings on cigarette packets. Cigarette companies still sponsored sports events, particularly cricket. Anyone could buy cigarettes as well - you would send your kid down to the dairy to get a pack of smokes. Now, you can't sell cigarettes to anyone under 18.

And they are thinking of blank packaging. Basically, you would have a white cigarette pack, the name of the company, and what sort of smokes you are getting. Oh, there will still be the gruesome pictures of what smoking can do to you, though.
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  #52  
Old 20 January 2014, 05:42 PM
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I had thought this thread was about attitudes that pleasantly surprised you, that is ones that seemed unusually progressive for their time, which is why I didn't post these in the beginning, but since the thread seems to have drifted in the other direction I'll mention them now.

When I first saw this thread I immediately thought of Hitchcock's movie Vertigo. Jimmy Stewart's character starts dating a woman who reminds him of another woman who had died earlier in the film (of so he thinks). He tries to talk her into changing her hair color, hair style, and clothing to look like the dead woman and she eventually relents. That's not the part that surprised me; he was supposed to have had a mental breakdown earlier that was making him act that way. The part that surprised me was a scene where they're in a department store and he's looking for a very specific dress for her to wear. The sales women in the store act like it's perfectly normal and acceptable for a man to be telling his girlfriend what to wear. When she protests, one of them says something like "The gentleman seems to know what he wants." Basically he's the man, he's in charge, and she should just shut up and submit to what he wants.

Another one is the movie Car Wash from 1976 (shut up). A male customer goes up to the young woman at the cash register to pay for his car wash and starts flirting with her and asks is she wants to go out with him that evening. Now most women I know would be offended if some random stranger tried to ask them out (granted most of the women I know are feminists) but the woman in the movie acts flattered, accepts his offer, and is excitedly telling everyone else that she has a date that night.
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  #53  
Old 20 January 2014, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Davies View Post
I've heard the Tonight Show used to allow guests to smoke for a long time, with long time smoker Johnny Carson also lighting up.
He did, although in later years he kept the ashtray below the desk (out of camera view) and only lit up during commercial breaks.
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  #54  
Old 20 January 2014, 07:16 PM
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Thunderbirds featured a lot of characters smoking, even for a 1960s children's show.

At least once I've heard of all the smoking was removed in a newly remastered version, along with the strings digitalled painted over.
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  #55  
Old 20 January 2014, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
I imagine some actors are really doing it while others are pretending. Tom Hanks was interviewed recently for his role in Saving Mr. Banks and he explained some of the new ratings rules. Apparently, now, you can show smoking, but it'll get a higher rating (I think a cigarette being smoked in a movie is now an automatic PG-13 rating.)
I've heard that some anti-smoking groups would prefer an automatic R for smoking in films(so that presumably any kids watching would be with their parent/guardian, who would say, "Don't do that.").

ETA:

Cite 1

Cite 2
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  #56  
Old 20 January 2014, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by snopes View Post
He did, although in later years he kept the ashtray below the desk (out of camera view) and only lit up during commercial breaks.
In some episodes of the Match Game, the cigarettes and ashtrays aren't in view, but there is a this cloud of smoke (esp around Richard Dawson).
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  #57  
Old 20 January 2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sooeygun View Post
In some episodes of the Match Game, the cigarettes and ashtrays aren't in view, but there is a this cloud of smoke (esp around Richard Dawson).
And of course, Charles Nelson Reilly almost always had a pipe.
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  #58  
Old 20 January 2014, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
Another one is the movie Car Wash from 1976 (shut up). A male customer goes up to the young woman at the cash register to pay for his car wash and starts flirting with her and asks is she wants to go out with him that evening. Now most women I know would be offended if some random stranger tried to ask them out (granted most of the women I know are feminists) but the woman in the movie acts flattered, accepts his offer, and is excitedly telling everyone else that she has a date that night.
Maybe I'm a bad feminist, but I've never been upset when a man I was flirting with asked me out on date. Now if I said "no" or wasn't flirting back, it would be a different story.
As for surprising attitudes, it's not that old but Boy Meets World managed to sneak in a lot of gay jokes for a show aimed at tweens. They might not have been the most progressive, but if it was running today I'm sure Focus on Family and the like would be up in arms over it.
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  #59  
Old 20 January 2014, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by catty5nutz View Post
I sort of wondered, when they show smoking scenes in the film, are the actors actually doing it, or pretending?
Not today, methinks.
It depends on the role and the actor really. Most of the time, roles that involve actors smoking on screen tend to attract actors that are either comfortable smoking (they already do it) or they are willing to use certain alternatives. I can imagine that unless smoking is really central to the role, actors that donít want to do it can request a re-write of the part or request alternatives (herbals) or they can do it digitally replacing a prop.
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  #60  
Old 20 January 2014, 11:23 PM
catty5nutz catty5nutz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
I had thought this thread was about attitudes that pleasantly surprised you, that is ones that seemed unusually progressive for their time, which is why I didn't post these in the beginning, but since the thread seems to have drifted in the other direction I'll mention them now.

When I first saw this thread I immediately thought of Hitchcock's movie Vertigo. Jimmy Stewart's character starts dating a woman who reminds him of another woman who had died earlier in the film (of so he thinks). He tries to talk her into changing her hair color, hair style, and clothing to look like the dead woman and she eventually relents. That's not the part that surprised me; he was supposed to have had a mental breakdown earlier that was making him act that way. The part that surprised me was a scene where they're in a department store and he's looking for a very specific dress for her to wear. The sales women in the store act like it's perfectly normal and acceptable for a man to be telling his girlfriend what to wear. When she protests, one of them says something like "The gentleman seems to know what he wants." Basically he's the man, he's in charge, and she should just shut up and submit to what he wants.

.
There also would have been the attitude of if someone is paying, then they get to choose what they are paying for. That probably would have been a common attitude at that time. I've come across a couple of people who have the attitude that is a man pays for a date, ie meals, then the woman "owes" him for that, and is obligated to sleep with him in return.
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