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  #1  
Old 30 June 2016, 07:14 PM
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Military Pentagon ends transgender ban

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(CNN)The Pentagon said Thursday it was ending the ban on transgender people being able to serve openly in the U.S. military.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/30/politi...ary/index.html
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  #2  
Old 27 July 2017, 03:27 PM
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http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ls-in-military

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President Trump on Wednesday said he would ban transgender people from any military service.

Trump made the announcement, which would represent a major shift in military policy, on Twitter. He said he had made the decision after consulting with "my generals and military experts."
Much like everything he does, this appears to be a spur of the moment decision announced without giving notice to anyone involved in implementing it.
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Old 27 July 2017, 03:47 PM
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Anyone who is thinking if Trump would only resign (or get kicked out of office) then everything would be peachy has forgotten that Pence is VP. This move has Pence written all over it. I doubt Trump truly cares one bit about this issue (other than using it as a distraction tactic) but Pence sure does.
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Old 27 July 2017, 03:55 PM
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Bang Head

I'd like to think Pence (or any politician who was at least good at being a politician, if not a political leader) would have notified the world, and particularly the military, of his decision via something other than a tweet, though. Maybe after consulting (really consulting) with military leaders for how to handle those servicemembers who so recently have come forward as transgendered. This is more like one of those "not even Bush" kind of things that seems a fitting response to any sort of "but Obama" argument.

It's like a horrible joke. Not in the ha ha sense, but in the Dante's Inferno / Divine Comedy sense (I think I'll be using that line a lot for the next four years).
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Old 27 July 2017, 04:03 PM
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Other than having to possibly foot the cost for the hormonal treatment and/or operation, what medical costs?
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  #6  
Old 27 July 2017, 04:26 PM
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Trench infections?
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  #7  
Old 27 July 2017, 04:30 PM
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The BBC says the US military spends a lot more on Viagra:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40741785
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Old 27 July 2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
The BBC says the US military spends a lot more on Viagra:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40741785
True, but it appears less than 10% of those costs are for active duty troops.

Most is, no doubt, for retirees.
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Old 27 July 2017, 05:19 PM
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Read This!

I don't know, have you read this article? An Officer Corps That Can' Score.

Seems like some of that Viagra might just be for active duty personnel...

Kidding aside, the article obviously has nothing to do with impotence, I just thought the title would provide some nice comedic relief. Real comedy. Not that Divine Comedy stuff. Though (and this is purely coincidental) it does include a link with a cover image to an issue of the publication with the cover story being "How Dante Saved My Life: A midlife crisis is cured by The Divine Comedy." Hmmmm...

Last edited by ASL; 27 July 2017 at 05:25 PM.
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  #10  
Old 27 July 2017, 05:21 PM
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A tweet is not an executive order, and last time I looked he hadn't made an executive order in a week. My guess is that there will never be a ban. He has tweeted that he is banning people, and so his followers will think that means a ban is in place, and will feel all good that they got the President to punish some of those icky people. Trump will forget about this, his staff won't want to deal with the legal battle this will cause, so no one will write up an actual ban for him to sign. Followers will never believe that the ban doesn't exist, no matter who debunks it.
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Old 27 July 2017, 05:23 PM
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When I saw the thread title "Pentagon ends transgender ban" I had hopes that the Pentagon had overruled the President's tweet and wasn't implementing the ban. Sadly it was just an old thread that had been revived to discuss the new ban.
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  #12  
Old 27 July 2017, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildaBeast View Post
When I saw the thread title "Pentagon ends transgender ban" I had hopes that the Pentagon had overruled the President's tweet and wasn't implementing the ban.
That would be called insubordination. Throw some violence in there and you'd have a mutiny. Being as he's the President, that'd make it a coup. Unfortunately, I still can't support a military overthrow of our elected civilian leadership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Credence View Post
A tweet is not an executive order, and last time I looked he hadn't made an executive order in a week. My guess is that there will never be a ban.
The trouble is, the military has to have a policy on how to deal with transgender personnel. A final policy decision has been "pending" for some time, so there's more than enough fluidity in the matter for a mere tweet to be decisive. If nothing else, whatever the military should happen to come up with, it would have to be approved, tacitly or otherwise. Certainly Congress will have a say in (or at least a vocal opinion on) the matter, if it involves funding.
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Old 27 July 2017, 05:29 PM
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Except that one can not obey an unlawful order even one from the CinC.
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Old 27 July 2017, 05:49 PM
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In what way is it unlawful? Up until last year, your military, run according to regulations set forth by Congress and the orders of your elected leaders, had a ban for... ever. Did Congress pass legislation that I'm not familiar with? Has their been a court decision on the matter? Absent any of that...
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Old 27 July 2017, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
That would be called insubordination. Throw some violence in there and you'd have a mutiny. Being as he's the President, that'd make it a coup. Unfortunately, I still can't support a military overthrow of our elected civilian leadership.
Yes, I did have my doubts as to whether the Pentagon could actually do that, but it gave me hope. Although as Darth Credence pointed out, does a tweet really count as an order?
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  #16  
Old 27 July 2017, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
In what way is it unlawful? Up until last year, your military, run according to regulations set forth by Congress and the orders of your elected leaders, had a ban for... ever. Did Congress pass legislation that I'm not familiar with? Has their been a court decision on the matter? Absent any of that...
Sorry, I am not a lawyer so I can't say it is illegal. I can postulate that there are regulations for separating a person from the military and that simply throwing a person out for their sexuality is not according to these regulations. Also, so far Trump has simply sent out a Tweet. A Tweet does not constitute an order, especially a tweet from a twit.
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  #17  
Old 27 July 2017, 06:18 PM
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I don't see why a tweet wouldn't be an order. Since executive orders are never explicitly defined, there is no qualification as to what does or does not constitute one. The tests on their validity are generally if the President does or does not have the authority to command the content, not what form the order takes. In my amateur opinion, a tweet could be an order if it can be conclusively proven that it does come from the President.

Based on a Washington Examiner news article, it seems like the Pentagon is waiting for a more traditional notice before they do anything. (Possibly because they suspect the same thing as Darth Credence.)

On a positive note, the Second Sea Lord* and Canadian military tweeted their support for their transgender personnel.

* I love the civilian titles the UK uses.

ETA: Sorry for the false hope Wildabeast. I searched snopes to see if this was being discussed and figured I could just continue this thread.
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  #18  
Old 27 July 2017, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM View Post
Sorry, I am not a lawyer so I can't say it is illegal. I can postulate that there are regulations for separating a person from the military and that simply throwing a person out for their sexuality is not according to these regulations.
Gender identity or trans status, not sexuality.
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  #19  
Old 27 July 2017, 06:27 PM
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It is not listed as an executive order on the White House web site. While it may be possible that a tweet could be an executive order, I believe that it would at least have to be put in the current numbering scheme.
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  #20  
Old 27 July 2017, 06:30 PM
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Shout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Credence View Post
A tweet is not an executive order,

Yet.

It could be by next week though
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