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Old 14 November 2014, 10:08 PM
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Default Judge rejects application to take aboriginal girl from family for chemo

An Ontario judge has dismissed an application to take an aboriginal girl from her family for chemotherapy.

The judge was deciding whether the Children’s Aid Society should intervene in the case of an aboriginal girl whose family removed her from chemotherapy at a Hamilton hospital in favour of traditional medicine. The girl has been undergoing treatment for leukemia in Florida.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...hemo-1.2834674

That treatment is referenced later in the article:

Quote:
The family paid the institute $18,000 for the treatment. In a video obtained by CBC News, institute director Brian Clement says his institute teaches people to "heal themselves" from cancer by eating raw, organic vegetables and having a positive attitude.
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Old 15 November 2014, 12:49 PM
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I despise the Raw Food culties and their quackery when it comes to cancer treatment. They'll occasionally pop on and spam their crap on a survivor's group that I frequent.
Found this regarding the previously mentioned institute
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...people-astray/
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Old 15 November 2014, 02:09 PM
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Watching the news coverage of this has been so annoying. There are groups rejoicing because they see this as being all about the virtues of Native medicine and the right to choose traditional treatments. But that's not what's happening here.
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Old 15 November 2014, 07:23 PM
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Damn. That poor girl.

The people at the "Hippocrates Health Institute" can rot in hell.

Fortunately, I believe the laws in the US are such that if she were an American this shit would not fly, and she would be receiving the likely life-saving treatment she needs.
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Old 15 November 2014, 08:41 PM
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I've been following this since White Coat, Black Art podcast covered it briefly last winter. There is apparently, much more than is being reported by the media.

It is less about First Nations medicine, and more about how much control does one have over ones own health care. This child has already undergone quite extensive chemotherapy treatment that did not work and made her quality of life horrible.

Her health is continually being monitored by health professionals. He parents are being informed of the status of treatment options. At this point, chemotherapy is still on the table if the parents want it. The parents are deferring to the decision of the child who is suffering from the disease and the treatment.

The court case has always been more of a test of where the limit is established for treatment of a child being forced upon a child/family. This case was not brought about to establish First Nations traditional health practices as equal to current provincially provided health practices. The podcast where I originally learned of this case dealt with complementary alternative treatments (some of which have value, most of which are bunk). It was headed by a woman who opted for "other than radiation" treatment for a lump in her breast and the medical/ethical challenges of it. And, in the end, it comes down to our medical systems in a democratic society, cannot be dictatorial.

I wish the media would focus on the actual story instead of creating a us/them story between communities in Canada. The First Nations relationship with the government is tenuous enough, we don't need a pseudo-story to fight over.
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Old 15 November 2014, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahungo View Post
Damn. That poor girl.

The people at the "Hippocrates Health Institute" can rot in hell.

Fortunately, I believe the laws in the US are such that if she were an American this shit would not fly, and she would be receiving the likely life-saving treatment she needs.
Doubtful. Thirty seven states have laws on the books requiring religious exemptions for parents who refuse to provide medical treatment of their children.
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Old 15 November 2014, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
Doubtful. Thirty seven states have laws on the books requiring religious exemptions for parents who refuse to provide medical treatment of their children.
Hmm, although I can't find a great comprehensive resource on the subject, it does seem like it varies from state to state.

Well, at least if this were here in New York she would be getting the treatment she needs.

Last edited by Jahungo; 15 November 2014 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 15 November 2014, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
I've been following this since White Coat, Black Art podcast covered it briefly last winter. There is apparently, much more than is being reported by the media.

It is less about First Nations medicine, and more about how much control does one have over ones own health care. This child has already undergone quite extensive chemotherapy treatment that did not work and made her quality of life horrible.
It's pretty simple to me, actually. She's 11 years old and has no meaningful understanding of what these health decisions really mean. She has a cancer that has a high cure rate with proper medical treatment but is always fatal without it, often within months.

This child is going to die without treatment but there is a greater than 90% chance that she will survive with treatment. There are cases where it is ambiguous whether or not treatment is truly warranted. This is NOT one of them at all.
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Old 11 December 2014, 01:13 PM
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Default Florida spa that treated First Nations girls with cancer faces lawsuits from ex-staff

A Florida health spa, popular with many Canadians battling cancer and other serious illnesses, is being sued by former staff who allege the company's president is operating "a scam under Florida law" and practising medicine without a licence.

Brian Clement runs the Hippocrates Health Institute in West Palm Beach where the families of two young First Nations girls from Ontario recently spent tens of thousands of dollars on treatments for their daughters' leukemia.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/fl...taff-1.2867597
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  #10  
Old 20 January 2015, 02:12 AM
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Makayla Sault, the 11-year-old girl who refused chemotherapy to pursue traditional indigenous medicine and other alternative treatments, has died.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/makayla-sa...004820939.html

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  #11  
Old 20 January 2015, 02:40 AM
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I have been following this one closely.

She had a 75% of survival, but she chose to stop the treatment because it made her sick.

The other girl from the next First Nation over had a 95% chance of survival and chose to go the same path as Makayla.

I would feel different about it if the facility they went to in the US was actually an authentic traditional healer, but it was a woo centre that sucked the families into paying huge amounts of money to sell them a dream.

RIP Makayla.
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  #12  
Old 20 January 2015, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
I would feel different about it if the facility they went to in the US was actually an authentic traditional healer, but it was a woo centre that sucked the families into paying huge amounts of money to sell them a dream.
I have to ask why this would have made a difference? I mean, it's still selling someone false hope either way, so why is it suddenly better because it's "traditional" medicine instead of something new?
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  #13  
Old 20 January 2015, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
I have to ask why this would have made a difference? I mean, it's still selling someone false hope either way, so why is it suddenly better because it's "traditional" medicine instead of something new?
Nothing to do with the medicine at all actually. But with the applicaiton of the law.

The family used a small section in the Charter and in Ontario law that allowed them to deviate from directed medical practices for their children to allow traditional healing.

When they did break with the chemo treatments, they headed to a holistic centre in Florida where "cold laser treatments", "vitamin C injections", "positive life living" and "raw food diet" were the treatment methods used.

So, they skipped out on proven methods of cure to ostensibly follow a course of traditional medicine, then skipped the traditional medicine to go the course of woo.

That is my issue.

Effectiveness of traditional medicines is another discussion all together.
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  #14  
Old 20 January 2015, 01:41 PM
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She's dead.
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  #15  
Old 21 January 2015, 03:51 PM
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These cases make me so angry. I don't care what her family says. Chemotherapy didn't kill her, a highly treatable form of cancer did. It didn't have to happen. Yes chemo severely affects your quality of life. So does being dead. The difference is that the first is hopefully temporary. The second is definitely permanent.
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  #16  
Old 25 April 2015, 03:07 PM
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The legal wrangling has ended, but debate about a young aboriginal girl's cancer treatment is likely to continue unchecked after new revelations about her condition emerged Friday at an extraordinary court hearing.

The girl had been in remission from leukemia, but the cancer returned last month and she has resumed chemotherapy, seven months after rejecting it in favour of native remedies and other alternative care, her lawyer said.

As the patient and her mother looked on, the judge who first ruled on the case in November then took the rare step of agreeing to change his decision at the request of lawyers involved in the affair.


http://www.thestarphoenix.com/health...879/story.html

Interesting. If I am understanding this correctly, the reason it went back to court was to clarify that a child's best interests must be paramount and that this was not made clear in the original ruling. Whatever I am just glad the child is being given a chance to get better.
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  #17  
Old 25 April 2015, 03:39 PM
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My second biggest heartache in this whole affair was that when Makayla Sault was so sick, any comment about getting her to effective medicine was largely met with "For decades, First Nations people were oppressed by the white people and could not exercise our heritage and freedoms." So, in principle, they were correct. But, in practicality, the support the Sault family got was less about Makayla, and more about the principle of the matter. In the end, Makayla died because of a battle over the principle, not a battle over a child's health.

I'm glad this second child is getting the life saving treatments.
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