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  #41  
Old 16 January 2019, 02:26 PM
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DawnStorm DawnStorm is offline
 
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My question to Flat Earthers would be: haven't you ever seen the earth's curvature from up on high, say on one of the many huge Ferris Wheels in various cities around the world? Photos from space, or are you also devotees of the whole Moon Landing Was Faked theory?
Never met a Flat-Earther though.
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  #42  
Old 16 January 2019, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
My question to Flat Earthers would be: haven't you ever seen the earth's curvature from up on high, say on one of the many huge Ferris Wheels in various cities around the world?
Some of them have made up quasi-mathematical models for how perspective works, to explain how things far away just naturally look curved, but it's an illusion. Others think the airlines put special lenses on their windows as part of the conspiracy.

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Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
Photos from space, or are you also devotees of the whole Moon Landing Was Faked theory?
Oh yes, most are devotees of that conspiracy for sure, and far more. They think millions of people are in on a conspiracy to fool them, for reasons. They have different reasons for why they think there were would be such an outrageous global conspiracy going on all the time. But any of them who have put any thought into it at some point have to fall back on grand conspiracy theories of one sort or another to explain all the clear evidence to the contrary that they are presented with.

This conspiracy angle is one of the most toxic aspects of Flat Earth ideology. They aren't just mistaken nitwits. They're crusaders who think everyone is against them. It's dangerous.

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Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
Never met a Flat-Earther though.
Some of the few that I've met in the wild are the Young Earth Creationist religious type. Which is how I can rule out trolling on their part, since those people don't have a sarcastic bone in their body. Even the other fundamentalists in their religious circles think they're weird. This type also seems well represented among the Flat Earth true believers online, though it's not the only type of Flat Earth believer.

For this type, one of the common motivations for why the whole world is lying to them is pretty simple: Satan. They're trying to trick them into thinking they're just on a small rock in a huge universe, instead of being at the center of God's creation.
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  #43  
Old 16 January 2019, 09:18 PM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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While I think meeting a few and talking to them is a great way to begin understanding, I don't think it's a good way to form an opinion about any group.

What I know, for what it's worth, comes more from reading observations of those who have either attended events like the one in the OP (not a good sample because it's extremely self-selected, limited to those who can attend, and tends, IMO, to be about hard-core conspiracy people who actually care about the shape of the planet, which not everyone does) or by better selections. I don't think we have a good balanced view of this group even in those observations but, IMO, it's true that there is a large group of those who have some complex amalgam of conspiracy theories and so forth. However, I think the majority if not the vast majority of people with this view simply suffer from bad or low education. In countries where the education varies extremely, some people literally don't get the whole picture and some of those also get the literature from those who are either part of that group who have a conspiracy complex or are in a religious organization that reinforces those beliefs regularly, or both.

We're talking about millions of people in the US alone so it's an extremely various set. (g)You're not going to hear their opinions just by meeting them somewhere or reading what they write on the web because most people don't just share their opinions with random people all the time. And most people don't go to conventions or write blogs or any of that kind of thing.

That said, we do see this trend, IMO, of the information age (which is 'ironic' in the vernacular sense) helping these groups form an geographically widespread, hard-core set of believers who reinforce each other. This has happened to more well-informed and well-educated groups, as well as those in between. So we have these kinds of social network islands of education, a few with the best education the planet has ever known, many somewhere in between, and a few with some of the wildest and weirdest notions we can imagine. (I feel extremely lucky to have found this board, to have a chance to learn a lot all the time, and to feel a bit less constrained by social media - but the lesson of Dunning-Kruger is that I'm not the best judge of myself!)
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  #44  
Old 16 January 2019, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
My question to Flat Earthers would be: haven't you ever seen the earth's curvature from up on high, say on one of the many huge Ferris Wheels in various cities around the world?
Our eyes and brains are extremely bad at understanding reality from observations, especially at that distance and size. So I think it would be terrible advice to trust that kind of observation. Indeed, it could be that exact type of observation that leads people to accept these flatland notions.

Most people, whether they are fairly well educated or not, simply don't think too intensely about these kinds of things. So if they have some vague concept and their favorite music artist tweets that it's all flat they may say "yeah, that could be true" or "that sounds about right..." Eventually, after enough interactions of that type it becomes a settled question.

We should try to understand that that's what has happened to nearly all of those who know the world is round too! Many (I think most) people, when they get on a plane, are just going from A to B. They don't really think about why timeszones exist, etc. If they look out the plane window and supposedly see a curve (honestly I'm not convinced this has much to do with the shape of the planet but that's a debate for another day) then it's just one of many weird things they see around them that they don't feel the need or desire to work into what is actually a complex web of knowledge even if you get it 'right'. If they already have the correct shape in mind then it reinforces that; otherwise, like most of the info we get all day, it's 'safely' ignored.
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  #45  
Old 17 January 2019, 12:41 AM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Where did you get those claims about Flat Earthers?
So unless I can pass the Daubert standard for expert witness testimony (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daubert_standard) I can't make any claims about any thing?
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  #46  
Old 17 January 2019, 12:45 AM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Who said you can't make the claim? I was just wondering where you got that info. If you don't want to talk about it, fine.
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  #47  
Old 17 January 2019, 12:51 AM
RichardM RichardM is offline
 
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It is my opinion based on what I have read. Note, that in a court of law, I am allowed to have an opinion only one electrical matters. Outside of court, opinions are like a******s, everybody has one although opinions multiple greatly. And I think flat earthers are similar to other anti-science cults including climate change deniers. And yes, I equate these people to religious cults.
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  #48  
Old 17 January 2019, 01:18 AM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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OK. Sorry if I offended you. I've said my opinions, too, and I hope everyone knows I think it's fine to say an opinion. Someone might ask you why you have that opinion. Also OK. In my opinion.

One of the interesting findings on research of children in this area was that even at young ages, the older children were significantly less likely to change their mistaken notions of the Earth's shape. So I think by adulthood it's reasonable to assume it's that much more difficult to overcome them. So I don't think for most people it's any kind of cult or even something they think about or act on much.
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  #49  
Old 17 January 2019, 03:19 AM
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I didn't even read the article in from the OP until now and now that I have read it, it's really stupid. I won't say flat-earther stupid, but stupid. But their evidence for the headline is
Quote:
But like Keijer says in The Guardian, the organization would be hard-pressed to find a cruise ship staff that shares their provably incorrect ideology.
The people who wrote the article don't even know what charts the cruise is using. I'm not going all Ganzfeld here, but c'mon. If you want to make fun of people who believe in a flat earth, have some evidence on your side. It's not that hard.
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  #50  
Old 17 January 2019, 04:04 AM
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ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
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Roll eyes

Be careful. If you make any criticism of the article, some here will see it as having "a personal investment in" Flat-Earther ideology.
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  #51  
Old 18 January 2019, 02:53 AM
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Crius of CoH Crius of CoH is offline
 
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Took me a while to find this; it's been years since I was last on that site. But anyways, some evidence that the Flat Earthers may not really understand their position.

Just for fun, since it got all serious and argumentative in here.
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