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  #41  
Old 03 April 2014, 07:48 AM
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It seems like that time period may have also coincided with Sanrio products catching on among adults. When I was in middle school, every girl had a favorite character and all the relevant accessories (mine was Keroppi; and I had a garbage can big enough for a candy wrapper, and a pencil box full of erasers that were too tiny and cute to use). But by high school we were waaaaaaay too old for that. And then by the time I was in college, the LA Times was writing about fashionistas sporting $200 haircuts and La Perla lingerie and, oh yeah, cartoon cats.
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  #42  
Old 03 April 2014, 11:08 AM
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Ignoring why pink became a femine colour in the first place, to me the problem with pink is more the problem with people's attitudes towards things that are feminine. It's hard to shake off, even when you're actively trying to.

To be a girl is to be an insult. You big girl's blouse, you woman, you throw like a girl, he cried like a little girl, little bitch, you pussy. Even female animals - would you rather be a stallion or a silly mare?

It's hard to avoid thinking of 'girly' as an insult and it's hard to stop yourself trying to defend yourself against it. Because of this, a lot of girls pride themselves on being a 'tomboy'. "I don't do stupid, silly girly things". Why are traditionally masculine pursuits more worthwhile than feminine ones? Why is blue better than pink? We see 'girly' as frivolous and vapid, weak or shallow. Useless. It seems so much easier to disassociate yourself from things like that than it is to claim it as your own but say that it's okay.

I don't like pink, incidentally, though I don't mind a little bit of it, but I grew up disliking a lot of girly things just because. I grew out of that.
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  #43  
Old 03 April 2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoitoider View Post
In the 1950's there was the Dodge La Femme, an automobile which was supposed to have "great appeal to women" b/c of its pink color scheme and matching accessories: rain gear and purse w/ compact, lighter, lipstick and cigarette case. It was discontinued after two years, with about 2,500 being manufactured.
The Pink Train is another such blunder. The story goes that someone at Lionel discovered that although they'd been marketing their toy trains to boys only, they were also very popular among girls. To capitalize on that market, they rushed out a pink train, which of course went over like a lead balloon. It is, however, very popular among collectors today.
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  #44  
Old 03 April 2014, 07:08 PM
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Damn that's ugly. It looks like it has Pepto Bismol spilled all over it.
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  #45  
Old 03 April 2014, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Twankydillo View Post

To be a girl is to be an insult. You big girl's blouse, you woman, you throw like a girl, he cried like a little girl, little bitch, you pussy. Even female animals - would you rather be a stallion or a silly mare?.
A big yes to your whole post but this is something I keep noticing and it is bugging the hell out of me. Bad enough when men call out other men by suggesting that they're girls (ooh the ultimate insult ) but it's even worse when women do it either to men or to other women. I've lost track of how many times I've heard women do this on TV shows - and it's always supposedly strong, independent women who are throwing these comments out. The implication that successful women identify with men and put down "the ladies who like pink" is pretty obvious.
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  #46  
Old 04 April 2014, 12:20 PM
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I think there's a desire among some women to gain acceptance among groups of men by putting down other women, particularly when the group of men is awkward around or disparaging of women among themselves. Some women seem to want to be one of the guys because that's who they interact with most and they don't want to be isolated, but I suspect for some there's a huge confidence boost to being regarded as exceptional for their gender, even if 'exceptional' in their case just means being a competent human being.

In fiction, it's just lazy writing. I think of it as 'Not Like the Other Girls' syndrome. It means the writer doesn't have to establish a strong female character, they just have to lower the baseline for competence, intelligence, courage, etc. for female characters in general so that their action girl is exceptional by default.

It gets right up my nose how people treat supposedly feminine traits as intrinsically useless or silly or just somehow inferior. Oh, that female character prefers to sew instead of fight? What a ninny! It's not like making durable clothing that won't leave you bare-arsed in the snow is a useful skill or anything. And don't get me started on baking! Who needs bread when you can flying kick a mook to the face?

I really appreciated the characterisation of Kaylee in Firefly, who was a skilled mechanic but also a lover of pink frilly dresses.
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  #47  
Old 04 April 2014, 09:01 PM
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I think it's both... It definitely took me quite a long time to cotton on to the idea of "sisterhood": for a long time when I was growing up, it appears that "feminism" was a word that did not mean what I thought it meant... I think it was probably my MIL who actually pointed out what I was doing!

It's hard I suppose because at an age where flattery coming from boys is genuinely appealing, especially if you fancy them, it's very gratifying to be identified as special for any reason at all.

The other thing I identify in pop culture apart from the Girl Not Like Other Girls if Femaleness as Character Trait (I suppose that's a sub-set of the same thing). If you have a group of 4 characters, their attributes might be something like "Strong", "Brainy", "Funny".... "Female"!
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  #48  
Old 04 April 2014, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blatherskite View Post
I think there's a desire among some women to gain acceptance among groups of men by putting down other women, particularly when the group of men is awkward around or disparaging of women among themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Embra View Post
I think it's both... It definitely took me quite a long time to cotton on to the idea of "sisterhood": for a long time when I was growing up, it appears that "feminism" was a word that did not mean what I thought it meant... I think it was probably my MIL who actually pointed out what I was doing!
This is at least related to the same core concept that I was trying to get at earlier when I talked about two ways of reacting to something that is identified as bad, either by distancing yourself from it or trying to reclaim and feminism is as susceptible to that as anything else.

So for better or for worst a lot of things got associated with being "girly" and when this was identified two (out the many possible) ways of dealing with it was either to distance yourself from it or try to reclaim it and remove the stigma from it.

Neither way is inherently right or wrong mind you, but it does lead to some legitimate points of contention.
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