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  #1  
Old 22 August 2013, 11:08 PM
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Icon605 Minimum wage at $15 an hour: Would it help or hurt?

Should the minimum wage go up to $15 an hour? Thatís the question thatís suddenly in play in the Seattle area.

If $15 sounds high, it's because it is more than double the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...t-help-or-hurt
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Old 22 August 2013, 11:47 PM
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I'd expect unemployment to spike initially, as people who work for <$15/hour and can't get higher-paying jobs go out of work. Unless cashiers, etc. are already making at least that much, then they'd better start preparing more self-serve checkouts.

So in the picture in the article, the people who are protesting low wages might simply find themselves completely out of work instead of making more money. Would they rather be employed at $9.19, or unemployed at $15?
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  #3  
Old 23 August 2013, 12:55 AM
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It wil lhelp everyone who is currently paid Minimum wage.
It will hurt everyone else. up to the new minimum wage.

My mother has had the same factory job for the last 25 year. She started when the Min wage was $4.25 an hour.

After 10 years there she was making $11.50 an hour , and the min wage had raised to $6.25. She was able to purchase a home, a car, and have a reasonable lifestyle.

Then about 5 years ago, they boosted the min wage to $10.50 an hour. Now she is only making 10% more than min -- and barely qualified for a re-finance on her home, and is now living pay cheque to pay cheque.

The powers that be never take into count the erosion of income of the people that are between the old and new Min wage -- or hovering around the new min wage --

They don't get raises to compensate them -- but all the costs around them go up -- even if just minimally it adds up.
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Old 23 August 2013, 01:03 AM
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Sounds more like a generic problem with the employer or with your mother's work performance if she hasn't had a raise in 15 years.
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Old 23 August 2013, 01:28 AM
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Sounds more like a generic problem with the employer or with your mother's work performance if she hasn't had a raise in 15 years.
I agree. If someone isn't getting the occasional raise that at least covers the increased cost of living/inflation then they're actually being paid a little less each year. I would be looking for other opportunities.
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Old 23 August 2013, 02:05 AM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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Washington already has the highest minimum wage in the country with $9.19 per hours and that includes tipped workers. That is almost $2 per hour more the federal minimum wage. Why, because SeaTac has a international airport and therefor all the business must be making huge sums of money and we think we should be a bigger part of it.

While you are it we need more government hand outs and you can pay for it by taxing the rich more. Don't forget to raise maximum wages for cutting off these hands outs because we still want them after you increase our wages.

I'm glad that I moved out of King County and the liberal socialist that think the government should take from the rich and give to the poor (namely them) in stead of working to better themselves and get a better paying job. I does get scary talking to these people because it is all about what I want instead of what did I need to do to get to were I want to be.
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Old 23 August 2013, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Singing in the Drizzle View Post
I'm glad that I moved out of King County and the liberal socialist that think the government should take from the rich and give to the poor (namely them) in stead of working to better themselves and get a better paying job. I does get scary talking to these people because it is all about what I want instead of what did I need to do to get to were I want to be.
Yes, anyone who supports paying poor people a living wage must themselves be a a poor person. No other explanation. And paying human beings a living wage for working a full time job is "taking from the rich".
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Old 23 August 2013, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Not_Done_Living View Post

My mother has had the same factory job for the last 25 year. She started when the Min wage was $4.25 an hour.

After 10 years there she was making $11.50 an hour , and the min wage had raised to $6.25. She was able to purchase a home, a car, and have a reasonable lifestyle.
I'm assuming your mother lives nowhere near Toronto. $11.50 an hour, even 15 years ago wouldn't have allowed someone to buy a house, a car, and have a reasonable lifestyle - even here in Ottawa which is significantly less expensive a place to live that just wasn't going to happen, not unless they had other sources of income.
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Old 23 August 2013, 03:32 AM
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I'm assuming your mother lives nowhere near Toronto. $11.50 an hour, even 15 years ago wouldn't have allowed someone to buy a house, a car, and have a reasonable lifestyle - even here in Ottawa which is significantly less expensive a place to live that just wasn't going to happen, not unless they had other sources of income.
That would be correct -- it is NOT in the GTA -- and yes the owners of the factory are cheap it's a family run company -- the family gets the money not the staff --most of the staff are temporary -- but its the only job my mother has had -- unskilled labor being what it is -- she felt it better to be paid what she was, then nothing.

the owners don't care about the staff, and if they quit, they just hire more minimum wage workers. its an expendable workforce now.

My mothers situation aside -- -it is a real issue that is glossed over -- every single person paid in the bridge between the old minimum wage and the new minimum are now making minimum regardless of what they were paid previously. Prices will change, and spending power does erode and none of that is taken into consideration.
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Old 23 August 2013, 03:32 AM
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Yes, anyone who supports paying poor people a living wage must themselves be a a poor person. No other explanation. And paying human beings a living wage for working a full time job is "taking from the rich".
I don't think that is what I said. I think all I said is what I do not like about what is being done, not what I think should be done to help the poor. You are the one filling in those blanks with your own opinions with considering all the options.
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Old 23 August 2013, 03:37 AM
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I'm pretty sure it's exactly what you said, but I'll concede that your grammar leaves some room for doubt.
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Old 23 August 2013, 04:38 AM
Singing in the Drizzle Singing in the Drizzle is offline
 
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I'm pretty sure it's exactly what you said, but I'll concede that your grammar leaves some room for doubt.
I do not believe the poor should be given living wages, the key word being "given". As a exercise try coming up with ways to help the poor get higher paying jobs with out just given them giving out higher paying jobs.

I'm off to bed.
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Old 23 August 2013, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Singing in the Drizzle View Post
You are the one filling in those blanks with your own opinions with considering all the options.
You do realize that's exactly how the notorious Southern Strategy works, don't you? You connect all but one of the dots, and then scream in outrage when someone else draws the logical conclusion, but you never say what you really meant.


Now, on the subject of enabling the poor to get better jobs, how do you do that? Education, primarily. How do we pay for education? Taxes, unless you can afford to send your kids to private schools, which the working poor can't. Besides, someone is always going to have to sweep the floors, clean the restrooms, flip burgers, etc. Are those people not entitled to a living wage? And do you really find raising taxes on the rich such an outrageous idea when the gap between rich and poor is the highest it's been since the Gilded Age?
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Old 23 August 2013, 05:14 AM
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If you were to effectively double the minimum wage by increasing it by $8/hour, what do you do with all the other employees wages? Does everyone get an $8/hour bump?
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Old 23 August 2013, 05:17 AM
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Not in my experience.
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  #16  
Old 23 August 2013, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ramblin' Dave View Post
Besides, someone is always going to have to sweep the floors, clean the restrooms, flip burgers, etc. Are those people not entitled to a living wage?
I think the lower middle class Tea Party base likes the idea of a permanent underclass, because they're at the second bottom rung of the ladder, and if they don't keep the underclass down then they'd be the bottom. Even if those fiscally conservative policies are at the expense of their own self-interest, as long as it hurts someone else a little more than them that's fine. They'd rather have someone else to be better than than to actually be better off.

Last edited by Errata; 23 August 2013 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 23 August 2013, 12:02 PM
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I think the lower middle class Tea Party base likes the idea of a permanent underclass, because they're at the second bottom rung of the ladder, and if they don't keep the underclass down then they'd be the bottom. Even if those fiscally conservative policies are at the expense of their own self-interest, as long as it hurts someone else a little more than them that's fine. They'd rather have someone else to be better than than to actually be better off.
Wow, that's remarkably smug. Not only do you ascribe to people you have never really met motives you cannot possibly know, not only do you make unfounded assumptions about the socioeconomic status of a broad group of people, but you also make the wholly unsupportable assertion that sound fiscal policies are bad, just because that would also entail reducing destructive enslaving subsidies of bad behavior. What really comes through in your post accusing others of looking down their nose at 'lessers' is that you are projecting your own attitudes on people, chuckling in your self-satisfied dismissive derision at those peons and their vision of better policies.
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Old 23 August 2013, 01:02 PM
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If you can come up with better reasons why economically disadvantaged people would align themselves with a party that will always work against their best interests I'd be interested to hear them.
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Old 23 August 2013, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramblin' Dave View Post
someone is always going to have to sweep the floors, clean the restrooms, flip burgers, etc.
This.

The society as a whole that we live in just plain doesn't work unless there are a lot of people doing the jobs that currently do not pay a living wage.

Now we could, theoretically, have a society in which everybody did that sort of thing for a while, managing with help from their families and by living in groups, and then everybody, or almost everybody, moved on to something higher paid. But we don't. We have a society in which, while some people pull that off, many more do those jobs all of their lives; and many others never do them at all, moving instead straight into higher paid work. Given that situation -- and I don't see a good and quick way to get out of it from where we are now -- shouldn't the people doing those essential jobs get paid enough to live on? or at least not get sneered at by some* of the higher paid because they don't?

Whether the specific proposed minimum wage for that specific area will have the desired effect, or only the negative effects that some are claiming for it, I don't know. But we ought to recognize the overall problem.


*please note that "some". I'm not saying either that all the higher paid do this, or that anyone on this particular thread has done this. I'm saying that it's fairly common behavior, and that it's part of the problem.
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Old 23 August 2013, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
but you also make the wholly unsupportable assertion that sound fiscal policies are bad,
I don't think anyone would assert that sound fiscal policies are bad; however, not everyone agrees on what constitutes sound fiscal policies.
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