snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > Non-UL Chat > Business Bytes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 13 June 2013, 09:28 PM
Aimee Evilpixie's Avatar
Aimee Evilpixie Aimee Evilpixie is offline
 
Join Date: 20 January 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 12,810
Hello Kitty

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Actually, no, there isn't any such word at all. (I didn't get GenYus's joke anyway so as long as he was going with the "ancient stereotyped Japan" I wasn't going to comment.)
According to the Wikipedia entry for seppuku, "In Japanese, the more formal seppuku, a Chinese on'yomi reading, is typically used in writing, while harakiri, a native kun'yomi reading, is used in speech."

As we know, Wikipedia is always reliable.

(In seriousness I just get twitchy when I see Japanese romanizations spelled incorrectly, probably due to all the Japanese classes I used to take, and also the fact that Japanese is actually really easy to spell if you have any idea how it works. It's not very rational.)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 13 June 2013, 09:35 PM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,786
Default

There was a song (a long time ago now...) that poked fun of western misunderstandings of Japanese. That was one of them (along with "Fuji-yama"). The Japanese wiki lists it as one of several alternative pronunciations but I've never heard anyone say it outside of the context of that joke. (But it's not exactly something that comes up in conversation.)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 13 June 2013, 09:40 PM
geminilee's Avatar
geminilee geminilee is offline
 
Join Date: 02 December 2005
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 11,518
Default

I don't think this is a terrible idea, but since this place is so expensive they probably have more leeway here than most places. I do wonder, though, whether the waitstaff has more income now than when tipped. And for at least some places, waitstaff may be better off getting the lower rate of pay with tips added in. Of the people I know waiting, many are making a lot more than basic minimum wage. They are better off working at Joe Blow's diner for 3 bucks an hour than at BK.

I am not pretending that all waitstaff are better off, but I would hate to see someone who previously made a liveable wage end up poorer becaise of this. Personally, I would like to see a combination; higher base wages with tips accepted for really good service.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 13 June 2013, 09:47 PM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,786
Default

Usually when I go out for dinner it costs way way less than 300 dollars and, although I can't be absolutely certain, I'm pretty sure the staff gets a decent wage. (I also totally agree with what Errata said. If a tip is the custom, don't stiff the workers in a foolish and useless gesture to make a point about how badly they're treated.)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 13 June 2013, 11:45 PM
Esprise Me's Avatar
Esprise Me Esprise Me is offline
 
Join Date: 02 October 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,946
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
Given that tipping is a custom in the US, and given that a tip is no cost to the management, there is no point is not accepting tips. The restaurant can fully compensate its employees however it wants and it makes zero difference to the restaurant if tips are added or not. So why ban them? Is it a problem if the wait staff makes "too much?"
Some people really, really hate the custom of tipping. You probably won't have to look far to find examples on this very board. If you pay your waiters a good wage and make tipping optional instead of prohibited, some people might still feel pressured to tip because it's so ingrained, while others might perceive--rightly or wrongly--that their server has some expectation of being tipped regardless. This could annoy people who hate tipping, and it could also lead to minorities perceiving, as they sometimes do now, that they receive worse service because servers anticipate getting stiffed. (It's a widely-held and not entirely groundless belief among American servers that foreigners and ethnic minorities are terrible tippers. I have no doubt this affects the level of service that at least a few of them receive when they go out to eat. It's a sucky situation all around.) Banning tips just makes the whole thing clearer; it doesn't matter who you're waiting on, you won't get a tip but you will get paid for your time, so there's no incentive to give unequal service. There's also no incentive to ignore another server's table that's trying to flag you down because you have your own customers to attend to; every customer is equally important, if perhaps a little less so than they might be if you were expecting a tip from them.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 14 June 2013, 01:03 AM
Cervus's Avatar
Cervus Cervus is online now
 
Join Date: 21 October 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,203
Default

I keep misinterpreting the headline as "New York Sushi Restaurant Eliminates Tipping Because It [the tipping] Pays Waiters a Salary."
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 14 June 2013, 01:17 AM
Richard W's Avatar
Richard W Richard W is online now
 
Join Date: 19 February 2000
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 26,437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
(I also totally agree with what Errata said. If a tip is the custom, don't stiff the workers in a foolish and useless gesture to make a point about how badly they're treated.)
That does raise the question of what, as a consumer, one might do to change the situation, though. If there are restaurants which provide an alternative, like the one in the OP, you could go to those instead - but for one thing, that relies on there being such restaurants in the first place, and this particular restaurant looks as though it's out of most people's price range anyway.

So how can the average consumer get the point across without screwing the wrong person out of some money?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 14 June 2013, 02:00 AM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,786
Default

I don't know. There's always fast food, I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 14 June 2013, 02:11 AM
Dasla's Avatar
Dasla Dasla is offline
 
Join Date: 15 April 2010
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 3,719
Default

My understanding is that in Australia we pay our service staff a decent wage. I tried to check what the minimum wage is for service staff but I couldn't load that page from the government website. I will try later. Anyhow maybe because of this Australians have a reputation for being non-tippers.

Tipping is neither banned or unheard of. Anecdotal but my Dad used to say that he and Mum bought their first new car with tips from his second job as a drinks waiter. This was back in the early 70's. I don't know if it still the same now as I don't know anyone in the industry. Many places have a tip jar. Although on the rare occasions I eat out I tend not to tip as the meal is already a big chunk of my available money.

Paying people a decent wage and tipping are not mutually exclusive.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 14 June 2013, 02:24 AM
Dropbear's Avatar
Dropbear Dropbear is offline
 
Join Date: 03 June 2005
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 7,237
Australia

From the Australian Fair Work Ombudsman website:

Quote:
Currently the full-time minimum wage is $15.96 per hour or $606.40 per week. This means that most employees in the national system shouldn't get less than this.

Casuals covered by the national minimum wage get an extra 23% ($19.63 per hour).
As I understand it that's the least you can get as an employee for any job (there are exceptions for juniors, trainees and apprentices) - you can trade some pay for other benefits through wage agreements but these need to okayed by the ombudsman and checked for fairness.

Dropbear
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 14 June 2013, 02:29 AM
Beachlife!'s Avatar
Beachlife! Beachlife! is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2001
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 28,667
Default

At those prices, I don't think it makes a big difference either way. I'm sure the servers were already making good money.

I am fine if restaurants want to follow suite though. It honestly doesn't matter to me which way a restaurant works.

If a restaurant is going to make it work right for the servers they are going to need to make the wage jump equivalent to at least 20% tips. Otherwise the best servers will be be losing out on the deal.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 14 June 2013, 02:35 AM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,786
Default

I wonder if the best servers are so much more likely to get the better tips. More likely the ones the customer finds most physically attractive. Serving more tables means more tips, though...
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 14 June 2013, 02:43 AM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropbear View Post
Currently the full-time minimum wage is $15.96 per hour or $606.40 per week.
Hijack/ I just compared the exchange rate for Canada and Australia. Your minimum wage seems very generous by our standards. Is it something someone can actually live on in Australia in terms of cost of living?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 14 June 2013, 02:43 AM
Beachlife!'s Avatar
Beachlife! Beachlife! is offline
 
Join Date: 22 June 2001
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 28,667
Default

Do you tip based on who you find attractive?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 14 June 2013, 02:46 AM
Mad Jay's Avatar
Mad Jay Mad Jay is offline
 
Join Date: 19 July 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 13,464
Default

I am not familiar with sushi restaurants, however, at that end of the price range, you will have generally multiple people at the table. You will most probably have a busboy per table, a waiter who takes the order for couple of tables, a captain who oversees the waiters and answers questions about the food, and a maitre' d who oversees everyone and assigns seating. A $60 tip at a high end restaurant would get split between 4 people, whereas at a mid range restaurant, a $20 tip might get split between 2 people. Plus, people at a higher end restaurant would spend longer at the table. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the wait staff at higher end restaurants make the same amount in tips as the wait staff at say, Chili's
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 14 June 2013, 02:59 AM
curlygirl's Avatar
curlygirl curlygirl is offline
 
Join Date: 08 December 2005
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 798
Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropbear View Post
...As I understand it that's the least you can get as an employee for any job (there are exceptions for juniors, trainees and apprentices) ...
Dropbear
From the Western Australian Governments award website, Wageline;

(These are minimum wages for the restaurant industry and all figure are per hour, casual workers get around a +20% loading in lieu of holiday/sick leave but don't usually get as huge an overtime mark up.)

Food and Beverage Attendant Level 1 (eg busboy) Full/Part time Mon-Fri: $16.52 Sat-Sun: $24.78 Public Holiday: $41.30 Casual Mon-Fri: $21.22 Sat-Sun: $25.46 Public Holiday: $38.19
and up to...
Food and Beverage Attendant Level 5 (eg maitre d') Full/Part time Mon-Fri: $20.21 Sat-Sun: $30.31 Public Holiday: $50.52 Casual Mon-Fri: $25.26 Sat-Sun: $30.31 Public Holiday: $45.46

ETA Sue it sure is a living wage. Cost of living here is quite high but you could still buy your own house with that (in the outer suburbs though). My nephew is 18 and an apprentice chef and has just put a deposit on an investment property (he is still living at home). Not all 18yos could but DN is not a party boy.

Last edited by curlygirl; 14 June 2013 at 03:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 14 June 2013, 03:05 AM
Hero_Mike's Avatar
Hero_Mike Hero_Mike is offline
 
 
Join Date: 06 April 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ & Hamilton, ON
Posts: 7,267
Default

Many of my co-workers have spent significant time in both the US (and Canada) and Australia and are near universal in their condemnation of the quality of service there. It is, in their opinion, and to a man, atrocious. The servers are generally inattentive and uncaring, occasionally bordering on condescending and rude. (With the one caveat that service is, indeed, very good, in high-quality establishments.) I cannot speak to the truth of their experience, as I have never been to Australia, but I dine with these people frequently (at the very least, weekly), and they are not rude, demanding, or "difficult" diners. I don't believe that their expectations are unreasonably high, and our shared experiences have been very good. If the food is bad, that's not the server's fault, but if the wrong order is brought, or we feel we are dying of thirst, that's the server. And these people aren't the type who think it's appropriate to merely shake an empty ice-filled glass at your server when you want a refill.

I don't know the details of the economy in Australia, but restaurants in most of Canada and the US seem to constantly advertise for open positions and turnover seems to be fairly high. I'm not surprised - it's a job I'd never want myself - but there's got to be a more immediate incentive for doing well, in a job with such immediate consequences of doing well, or doing badly. I don't think that the tipped system is ideal, but having heard of how the alternative doesn't seem to work well - I'm no longer so against it.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 14 June 2013, 03:11 AM
Dropbear's Avatar
Dropbear Dropbear is offline
 
Join Date: 03 June 2005
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 7,237
Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Hijack/ I just compared the exchange rate for Canada and Australia. Your minimum wage seems very generous by our standards. Is it something someone can actually live on in Australia in terms of cost of living?
There's a strong principle in Australia of a "living wage" ie that the minimum wage should enable people to be able to manage a fair standard of living* - the minimum wage will mean the basics but a single person employed fulltime would be able to get by okay - harder for a single income family of course, or part-timers but then on the minimum wage a single income family would also get supplementary benefits.

Dropbear

*This principle was established in 1907
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 14 June 2013, 03:22 AM
curlygirl's Avatar
curlygirl curlygirl is offline
 
Join Date: 08 December 2005
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero_Mike View Post
Many of my co-workers have spent significant time in both the US (and Canada) and Australia and are near universal in their condemnation of the quality of service there. It is, in their opinion, and to a man, atrocious. The servers are generally inattentive and uncaring, occasionally bordering on condescending and rude.
It is not atrocious it is just different. Waitstaff here don't hover, they are more in the background and tend not to have a subservient air. But they are not rude, they wouldn't last long as there is not shortage of workers. I suppose it is an attitude thing, here it's like "It may be my job but that doesn't mean I'm inferior to you" and that is different to what you are accustomed to.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 14 June 2013, 03:30 AM
ganzfeld's Avatar
ganzfeld ganzfeld is offline
 
Join Date: 05 September 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
Posts: 23,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
Do you tip based on who you find attractive?
It doesn't matter if no one does it on purpose. It's well-documented that people do things without understanding why. There's also good evidence people who are more attractive get better tips.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cow tipping Christine Critter Country 8 29 October 2011 03:01 AM
Rat through the very heart of it, New York, New York snopes Snopes Spotting 0 07 January 2010 06:08 AM
Presidents who refused salary snopes History 11 24 September 2008 09:13 PM
On Tipping Floater Sightings 4 19 December 2007 01:50 PM
Clintons turned military into waiters snopes Politics 44 31 March 2007 12:34 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.