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  #1  
Old 31 January 2019, 04:08 PM
landmammal landmammal is offline
 
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Dog Kidney diet for dogs?

My 14yo mutt was just diagnosed with kidney disease, and the vet wants her on Purina NF. I read the ingredients and it looks like garbage. The first ingredient in the dry food is corn, and the second ingredient in the canned food is meat by-products, and it's downhill from there.

Are there any foods suitable for dogs with kidney disease that are made out of things like actual meat? She's also allergic to chicken and potatoes (the canned Purina NF has chicken by-products).

TIA!
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  #2  
Old 31 January 2019, 04:55 PM
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DawnStorm DawnStorm is offline
 
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I don't know how reliable this site is, but it does give an overview of the brands.
Good luck and good vibes.
Did the vet mention any other brands?
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  #3  
Old 31 January 2019, 07:19 PM
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Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
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Glasses

One thing to keep in mind is that it's important to make sure that animals with kidney problems drink a lot of fluids. Whatever food you settle on, you might add water to it when you serve it. However, keep in mind that I am not a vet.

Also, FWIW, I've been told (yes, by a FOAF; however, I know who she is, where she works, and I have actually met her once) that the vet school at Washington State University is starting to see dogs with health issues caused by a completely grain-free diet.

Seaboe
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Old 31 January 2019, 07:57 PM
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erwins erwins is offline
 
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So, I've never had a dog with kidney disease, but I have had 3 cats with it. (And I'm not a vet. This is my understanding of things based on my limited experience and limited research.)

Protein breakdown products are bad for an animal with kidney disease. So, kidney diets minimize protein. They should contain small amounts of "high value" or "high quality" protein to meet nutritional needs. Those terms just mean that it should be highly bioavailable -- very digestible. Egg is a good one, and so is meat meal. Meat byproducts are not high on the list. Regular muscle meats are fine.

For the sake of calories and volume, something else needs to fill the void when you minimize protein. So, often there will be rice and or corn as the first ingredient. Other nutrients, like phosphorous, need to be carefully managed. So the food will be drastically different from what you are used to seeing if you fed a low or no grain food that was mostly meat before.

The bad effect of feeding too much protein will be worse for an animal with kidney disease than whatever bad effects there may be from the animal eating grain, unless maybe you're talking about a major allergy.

Talk to your vet about why the food is better for your dog, or you can do some research. You should also be alble to get authorization from your vet if you think another brand would be better -- there are lots of options for ordering special food online and it's usually cheaper than buying whatever your vet carries anyway. They should provide you with an Rx for the food if needed.

Just eyeballing the ingredients, the dry food ones for the Purina look pretty good to me. The canned food doesn't look as good. I would look for a different canned food if you want to use that.

I'm sorry your dog has kidney disease. I hope the renal diet helps.

Last edited by erwins; 31 January 2019 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 31 January 2019, 08:06 PM
landmammal landmammal is offline
 
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Thanks, Dawn. I liked the explanations on that page. The vet didn't mention other brands and I'm guessing the Purina happens to be the one he carries. I found Blue Buffalo has a decent quality kidney support food, but it's chicken and potato. I'm leaning toward homemade at this point since everything I've looked at has some form of chicken.

Seaboe, I read an article about the grain-free diet being connected to heart problems a month or two ago. She's been on grain-free most of her life since that's about all I can find that she's not allergic to, but luckily her heart seems to be great. For now she's drinking lots of water (and half her food is canned) but I'm ready to get a fountain if that slows down.
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  #6  
Old 31 January 2019, 08:40 PM
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Morning Morning is offline
 
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Glasses

I am not a vet, nor have I had a dog with kidney disease, but I have stage 4 renal failure and am on a renal diet.

You should be very careful about the level of calcium, potassium, and phosphorus in your pup's food. Check with your vet to see if potatoes are safe for her, that is one of my restricted foods. Cheese and all dairy might have too much calcium for her and hypercalcemia is a nasty possible side effect of kidney disease.*

I hope you and your doggie work things out!

Morning

*missing dairy so badly I am tempted to suicide by ice cream. Or nachos. Or fried mozzarella sticks.
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  #7  
Old 01 February 2019, 01:16 AM
landmammal landmammal is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwins View Post
For the sake of calories and volume, something else needs to fill the void when you minimize protein. So, often there will be rice and or corn as the first ingredient.
That's a great point. I'm so used to checking ingredients for fillers that I didn't think about how that's actually what she needs now. For some reason rice bothers me less than corn- maybe the association with "finishing" cattle before slaughter, or high-fructose corn syrup.

I talked to the vet this afternoon and he agreed with me that in general, he doesn't like feeding corn-based foods but in this situation her kidney health is more important than having a great diet. He recommends the Purina because it's been around a while and does what it's supposed to do.

I ended up getting the dry Purina for now because I'd like her to start getting better ASAP. She's just barely into stage 3 but the vet thinks with the special food and the supplements she'll go back down to stage 2. I'll keep looking for an alternative that I'm more comfortable with and try to find a canned food she can eat.
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  #8  
Old 01 February 2019, 03:03 AM
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erwins erwins is offline
 
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Just looking at what's on Chewy.com (which I've ordered renal diet cat food from), this one seems worth taking a look at. https://www.chewy.com/diamond-care-r...caAqWDEALw_wcB
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Old 01 February 2019, 02:02 PM
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Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
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Glasses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning View Post
*missing dairy so badly I am tempted to suicide by ice cream. Or nachos. Or fried mozzarella sticks.
I'm going to reply to this in the Unhijackable thread to avoid hijacking this one.
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  #10  
Old 01 February 2019, 10:40 PM
landmammal landmammal is offline
 
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erwins, that does look a lot better than the Purina but she's allergic to chicken and potato. I asked the vet if something with just chicken fat would be okay and he said the chicken protein is generally the allergenic part, but he'd still recommend she avoid any chicken products.

Chicken causes her some *ahem* digestive upset, but the potato allergy is really bad. She accidentally got about a teaspoon of hash browns once and spent the next week scratching her ears bloody. I'd consider a food with chicken fat as the only chicken product, but definitely no potato anything.

She does seem to like the Purina so far although it's only a quarter of her food right now (vet wants her to transition over at least 7 days). My husband found a canned food that might be okay (Wysong Senior Turkey formula). It's only 9% protein but they couldn't tell me how much phosphorus is in it. Anyway, we're feeling hopeful! The vet thinks if we're able to get this under control now, she'll die of something else before her kidneys get her.

People who've had pets with kidney failure, how often did they have to go to the vet once it was under control? Because my dog haaaaaaaaaaaaaaates the vet. She has to be sedated and still panics if they need to draw blood or anything. She's supposed to go back after 2 weeks on the diet to see if it's helping and they'll need to do bloodwork, and then I was hoping after that if her symptoms didn't get worse we'd only have to go every few months.
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Old 02 February 2019, 02:12 AM
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DawnStorm DawnStorm is offline
 
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I don't recall having to take Felix T. Cat (The International Cat of Mystery) to the vet very often, but I did have to go to the vet about once every other week for another bag of fluids. I had to give Felix fluids every other night--he was so calm about it. I'm trying to remember what renal diet he was on. I know had to try a few brands before I found one he liked. IIRC it was Science Diet canned. I cannot remember what kibble I gave him though. FWW Felix had a grain allergy, but I don't think the renal diet had any grain in it.
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Old 02 February 2019, 02:53 AM
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thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
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I also don't remember a whole lot of vet. visits, though I may just not be remembering the later stages all that clearly -- there certainly aren't a lot at early stage, and some cats stay at early stage for quite a while. (I've only had the problem with cats. I've got one now with early stage, but it hasn't progressed in a year, even though putting her on a special diet would be difficult and have other downsides in her case, so we haven't.)

You may have to give subcutaneous fluids at home, eventually. That's not particularly difficult -- I had a cat years ago who would cheerfully claw you up if he got annoyed but who I was able to give fluids to with very little trouble.
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Old 04 February 2019, 02:02 PM
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DawnStorm DawnStorm is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post

You may have to give subcutaneous fluids at home, eventually. That's not particularly difficult -- I had a cat years ago who would cheerfully claw you up if he got annoyed but who I was able to give fluids to with very little trouble.
If it comes to that, make sure to NOT insert the needle at the same place everytime--it may cause scar tissue to form. I'll see if I can find a cite--my Googleing skills aren't the greatest right now.

ETA: This is for people, but you'll get the message
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