snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Social Studies

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12 December 2018, 03:36 PM
Seaboe Muffinchucker's Avatar
Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
Join Date: 30 June 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18,902
Glasses

Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnStorm View Post
This article reminds me of people who show up to work when they're sick.
Or get on a plane when they're coughing, and don't bother to wear a mask or cover their mouth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
There are studies from as far back as the 90s at least that show that it's actually better for productivity for workers with infectious illnesses to stay home rather than come in and infect other people.
My employer wants its employees to use their sick leave, not save it up, so if you try to carry it over, you lose 1/2 of it. So if you use 5 sick days out of 10 over the course of the year, when your anniversary comes, you end up with 12.5 days instead of 15 (10 new days, plus half of the left over days). This will be changing soon, as they go to a time bank (which combines vacation and sick leave--no, we're not getting fewer days, just more flexibility as to how to take it).

Seaboe
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12 December 2018, 04:17 PM
smittykins's Avatar
smittykins smittykins is offline
 
Join Date: 27 December 2003
Location: Seneca Falls, NY
Posts: 2,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Not that that's right, but that person may be afraid of getting yelled at by somebody if they call in sick.

Thanks.

Bill
Or, in the case of minimum-wage jobs with no sick leave, they literally canít afford to stay home.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12 December 2018, 04:47 PM
Beachlife!'s Avatar
Beachlife! Beachlife! is online now
 
Join Date: 23 June 2001
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 28,625
Default

As a manager, I have a 'no questions asked' policy about taking sick time. My company tracks sick time, giving employees 5 days a year, but it means nothing. There is no carry over of unused days nor any penalty for using more than 5 days a year.

Sadly, my treatment of sick days is an exception rather than the rule. There are managers at my company who will rant at any use of sick days and often make disparaging remarks about employees who take 'too much' sick time.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12 December 2018, 04:56 PM
dfresh dfresh is offline
 
Join Date: 11 November 2005
Location: Oxford, PA
Posts: 4,346
Default

I've always been lucky at working at places that encourage you to take your sick time, and don't question if people are out sick. The current place reduced the amount of vacation time you can carry from year to year to encourage people to take time off, since some were carrying months of vacation time.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12 December 2018, 05:56 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,702
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smittykins View Post
Or, in the case of minimum-wage jobs with no sick leave, they literally canít afford to stay home.
Years ago, when the US Federal government was starting to work on revamping the food safety standards for greens etc., I went to a meeting at which they said they wanted farmers' input.

At the beginning of the meeting, these people who work in offices in Washington said they wanted us to tell them when their suggestions wouldn't work in the "real world" (their terminology, personally I'm afraid those offices are real too.)

It quickly became obvious that any time we tried to do so their eyes just glazed over and they couldn't hear us. Some of that was about the essential non-sterility of farm fields and ecosystems; but one of the things that stuck in my head was us trying to explain to them that most of the people working in the large-scale packing houses (and who weren't represented in that room) couldn't afford to just take off work if they were sick. They kept insisting that employers would just have to explain better to them why it mattered.

It didn't seem possible to explain to them why it mattered to those workers to be able to feed their kids, pay their rent, and for that matter keep their jobs. You want cheap food? This is part of the price.


-- there are somewhat more places in the USA requiring paid sick leave than there used to be; but there are still a lot of gaps. Plus which, as we don't allow enough people to get green cards so they can work legally, there are a lot of people both packing and growing food who are in no position to insist on their legal rights.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12 December 2018, 06:23 PM
NobleHunter's Avatar
NobleHunter NobleHunter is offline
 
Join Date: 21 September 2005
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Posts: 633
Default

Quote:
but one of the things that stuck in my head was us trying to explain to them that most of the people working in the large-scale packing houses (and who weren't represented in that room) couldn't afford to just take off work if they were sick. They kept insisting that employers would just have to explain better to them why it mattered.
I can see how that goes:

"It's really, really important that you don't come in to work sick. But not important enough that we'll actually give you paid sick leave."
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12 December 2018, 07:49 PM
Seaboe Muffinchucker's Avatar
Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
Join Date: 30 June 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18,902
Glasses

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfresh View Post
The current place reduced the amount of vacation time you can carry from year to year to encourage people to take time off,
We have a "use it or lose it" policy. You can accumulate up to 2 years worth of vacation days; once you have that, you stop earning more (and it is earned on an hourly/weekly basis--e.g., I earn 3.068 hours for each 40 hour week I work) until you use some. 3 hours a week may not sound like much, but it adds up pretty quickly.

Seaboe
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12 December 2018, 07:55 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 26,469
Heavt breathing

Y'all are making me feel bad about coming in to work when I may have a cold (could be major allergies, not sure).
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12 December 2018, 07:58 PM
Seaboe Muffinchucker's Avatar
Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
Join Date: 30 June 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18,902
Glasses

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Y'all are making me feel bad about coming in to work when I may have a cold (could be major allergies, not sure).
I go if I'm not sure. The odds that it will be allergies are much higher. If I'm not sure, I wash my hands a lot, and try not to breathe too heavily on my coworkers.


Seaboe
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12 December 2018, 08:46 PM
Bill Bill is offline
 
Join Date: 02 January 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
There are studies from as far back as the 90s at least that show that it's actually better for productivity for workers with infectious illnesses to stay home rather than come in and infect other people.

I'm glad Oregon started requiring companies to provide mandatory paid sick leave this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife! View Post
As a manager, I have a 'no questions asked' policy about taking sick time. My company tracks sick time, giving employees 5 days a year, but it means nothing. There is no carry over of unused days nor any penalty for using more than 5 days a year.

Sadly, my treatment of sick days is an exception rather than the rule. There are managers at my company who will rant at any use of sick days and often make disparaging remarks about employees who take 'too much' sick time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfresh View Post
I've always been lucky at working at places that encourage you to take your sick time, and don't question if people are out sick. The current place reduced the amount of vacation time you can carry from year to year to encourage people to take time off, since some were carrying months of vacation time.
I agree with you all; in the ideal world, if someone's sick, it's best in the long run if they stay home, and employers would understand.

But, in the world we live in, (1) employers don't always understand (and as another poster said, some employees don't get sick time), and (2) some employees abuse it.

Thanks.

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12 December 2018, 09:20 PM
Skeptic's Avatar
Skeptic Skeptic is offline
 
Join Date: 16 July 2005
Location: Logan, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
I'm reminded of the Anthropology course I took in college: hunter-gatherer societies are believed to have had individuals spend an average of 30 hours a week working. Where did we go wrong?
Reminds me of that Crocodile Dundee quote, "How do you like your goanna?".

The only other workplace brag that annoys me more is people saying how many emails they have in their inbox. Yeah, sure, go and brag about how inefficient you are.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12 December 2018, 11:43 PM
Gutter Monkey's Avatar
Gutter Monkey Gutter Monkey is offline
 
Join Date: 13 December 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,146
Default

An update on my current work conditions: I'm usually the kind of guy who stresses over the team's deadlines and gets annoyed if I finish all my allotted tasks but other people in the company didn't put in as many hours as I did and didn't get their stuff done (and I quite often end up being the guy who stays back all night on the final day finishing off other people's jobs) but I'm forcing myself to step away from that mentality and let go of all that stress. As far as I'm concerned that's all a whole lot of Not My Department now.

I always knew that on some level but this discussion on "Boasting about how many hours you work is a sign of failure" reminded me at just the right moment to loosen up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
But, in the world we live in, (1) employers don't always understand (and as another poster said, some employees don't get sick time), and (2) some employees abuse it.
Oh boy I hate that mentality: the idea that some hypothetical slackers might abuse the system overruling the fact that many people genuinely need it.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 13 December 2018, 03:10 AM
Crius of CoH's Avatar
Crius of CoH Crius of CoH is offline
 
Join Date: 13 February 2006
Location: Paragon City (Cranston), RI
Posts: 1,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Monkey View Post
Oh boy I hate that mentality: the idea that some hypothetical slackers might abuse the system overruling the fact that many people genuinely need it.
Anecdotal, but almost every place I worked at had at least one routine sick day abuser. College groundskeeping division, different college food service division, a jewelry factory, CVS corporate headquarters, and the fire department, the last being the worst ("It's a contractual right! If you don't use it, we'll lose it!"). The one place I worked that I know it wasn't abused was a candy factory warehouse, because unless you had an actual doctor's note, three days' sick meant you were fired. I don't think I'm so lucky that I managed to find workplaces with the few actual examples of employee sick time abuse, so I have to assume that it is somewhat common, at least regionally.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 13 December 2018, 03:31 AM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 13,176
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crius of CoH View Post
I don't think I'm so lucky that I managed to find workplaces with the few actual examples of employee sick time abuse, so I have to assume that it is somewhat common, at least regionally.
It's rampant in certain types of lower paying hourly jobs, or jobs with limited potential for career growth. If you aren't paying enough for professionalism, then then the employees don't have a lot to lose, and worst case they can get another similar low paying job if they're fired. In jobs with high entry requirements and lots of upside potential for their salary, they don't want a reputation for questionable sick days to be the thing that holds them back from a bigger raise or promotion.

I don't think it's a reason that people shouldn't have paid sick time. If you work with people like that, it is a bit galling to see people willing to be dishonest effectively getting more vacation. I'm not sure there's a perfect solution, and it's better to err on the side of people not coming to work sick.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 13 December 2018, 03:36 AM
Crius of CoH's Avatar
Crius of CoH Crius of CoH is offline
 
Join Date: 13 February 2006
Location: Paragon City (Cranston), RI
Posts: 1,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
I don't think it's a reason that people shouldn't have paid sick time. If you work with people like that, it is a bit galling to see people willing to be dishonest effectively getting more vacation. I'm not sure there's a perfect solution, and it's better to err on the side of people not coming to work sick.
I completely agree, just wanted to point out that there are likely a fair bit more than hypothetical slackers, given my personal experience.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 13 December 2018, 03:49 AM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,702
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crius of CoH View Post
almost every place I worked at had at least one routine sick day abuser. College groundskeeping division, different college food service division, a jewelry factory, CVS corporate headquarters, and the fire department, the last being the worst ("It's a contractual right! If you don't use it, we'll lose it!").
Did sick days there accrue to the next or later years?

Seems to me that allowing them to do so would reduce people taking the days when not actually sick; because nobody knows whether, next year, they might come down with something significant and need more than one year's allotment.

-- another thing that sometimes happens is that people take sick days when they're not the ones who are sick -- but somebody they're a caretaker for is sick: a child needs to stay home from school, a parent needs to be driven to/accompanied at a doctor's visit, etc. If all adults in a family are expected to be working [ETA outside the home/for pay], and there's no legitimate way to take time off for such things, then people will often take the time as their own sick days, if they get any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crius of CoH View Post
The one place I worked that I know it wasn't abused was a candy factory warehouse, because unless you had an actual doctor's note, three days' sick meant you were fired.
And on day 3, there you are, highly contagious, at the doctor's office, spreading whatever you've got to everybody else in the waiting room, the receptionist, and whichever health care worker had to see you to give you the note.

That, of course, is assuming that you got there, instead of causing a car accident because you drove to the doctor's office with 102ļ fever after getting no sleep the night before because you were coughing so hard, or couldn't stay away from the bathroom. (Or maybe you live somewhere with actual public transport, and took the bus. See paragraph above, except applied to everybody else on the bus.)

Of course, it's possible that if something's making you that sick you needed to go to the doctor anyway; but there is quite a range of things for which the doctor's going to tell you to go home and go to bed.

Maybe the doctor will supply you with a note based on you calling them up on the phone and describing your symptoms. But I don't see how that would provide any more proof than you calling your supervisor.

-- I'm sure there are people who call in sick because they'd rather go fishing, or they stayed up too late drinking the night before partly because they figured they'd just call in sick the next day, or whatever. I'm just not convinced that any of the supposed cures for this problem aren't worse than the disease.

Last edited by thorny locust; 13 December 2018 at 03:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 13 December 2018, 03:52 AM
UrbanLegends101 UrbanLegends101 is offline
 
Join Date: 24 November 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,374
Default

Over on the US Federal side, unused sick leave adds to the work service credit for retirement annuity calculations. It wasn't unusual for a Federal civilian employee to retire with a year or more of unused sick leave hours on the book, which translated to increased annuity calculation.

Unused annual leave could be carried over into the new leave year, but only up to 240 hours. The 240 hour limit was the normal for stateside employees - Foreign Service employees could carry 360 hours into the new leave year if outside the United States.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 13 December 2018, 04:14 AM
WildaBeast's Avatar
WildaBeast WildaBeast is online now
 
Join Date: 18 July 2002
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 15,813
Default

From what my coworkers tell me, at my company they used to have PTO (paid time off) and DTO (not sure what that stood for). PTO was supposed to be for vacation, DTO was for sick days or doctor's appointments or whatever. Any unused PTO time rolled over to the next year (as required by California law), but DTO was "use it or lose it". So at the end of the year most people used their unused sick days for their Christmas vacation, and let their vacation days roll over to next year.

So just before I joined the company they changed it to give people the same number of days off, but now it's all classified as PTO. But that means if you're sick you have to use a "vacation" day, so I imagine that will encourage some people to come to work when they're sick because they don't want to "waste" a vacation day. We can work from home though, so there is also the option of working from home while sick and not having to take time off.

I like the policy my previous employer had, which was just "don't come to work if you're sick". They didn't track how many sick days you took, and trusted employees not to abuse it.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 13 December 2018, 09:43 AM
Gutter Monkey's Avatar
Gutter Monkey Gutter Monkey is offline
 
Join Date: 13 December 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crius of CoH View Post
Anecdotal, but almost every place I worked at had at least one routine sick day abuser. College groundskeeping division, different college food service division, a jewelry factory, CVS corporate headquarters, and the fire department, the last being the worst ("It's a contractual right! If you don't use it, we'll lose it!"). The one place I worked that I know it wasn't abused was a candy factory warehouse, because unless you had an actual doctor's note, three days' sick meant you were fired. I don't think I'm so lucky that I managed to find workplaces with the few actual examples of employee sick time abuse, so I have to assume that it is somewhat common, at least regionally.
In my opinion if an employee is abusing the sick day system (or the smoke break code, or cheating on their KPIs, or any other abuse of office protocols) it's a management issue that should be handled on individual cases. It should also be a pretty clear indicator of staff morale issues that should probably be addressed.
I guess it's not so much of an issue if the staff chucking a fake sickie aren't getting paid for those sick days and other staff are happy to cover their shifts. Also I don't have any problem with the company requiring medical certificates, that's pretty much standard practice here in Australia from my experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crius of CoH View Post
I completely agree, just wanted to point out that there are likely a fair bit more than hypothetical slackers, given my personal experience.
No one said the problem was only hypothetical.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 13 December 2018, 10:19 AM
kitap's Avatar
kitap kitap is offline
 
Join Date: 20 January 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 9,880
Whalephant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post

My employer wants its employees to use their sick leave, not save it up, so if you try to carry it over, you lose 1/2 of it. So if you use 5 sick days out of 10 over the course of the year, when your anniversary comes, you end up with 12.5 days instead of 15 (10 new days, plus half of the left over days). This will be changing soon, as they go to a time bank (which combines vacation and sick leave--no, we're not getting fewer days, just more flexibility as to how to take it).

Seaboe
Man, I'd be in trouble. I rarely get sick. The last time I called in sick it was some 24-hour bug and I went to work the next night feeling 100% fine. Except everyone I ran into thought I looked at death's door. Every employee I ran across that night said a variation of "are you sure you should have come back tonight? You look like Hell!" And that was 4 or 5 years ago.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dozens stuck for 4 hours in SeaWorld San Diego ride after power failure snopes Crash and Burn 1 11 July 2014 12:33 PM
Economists-An astonishing record Ė of complete failure Steve Soapbox Derby 21 05 June 2014 06:07 AM
Airline passenger boasting 'Prepare to Die' on his chest is asked to change A Turtle Named Mack Social Studies 37 27 January 2013 05:58 PM
Panadol causes kidney failure snopes Inboxer Rebellion 7 05 November 2007 09:26 AM
Boeing 777 Engine Failure at Takeoff? JoeBentley Fauxtography 20 29 January 2007 04:55 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.