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Old 31 October 2017, 09:30 PM
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Driver At Least 8 People Killed In Motorist's 'Act Of Terror' On Manhattan Bike Path

At least eight people were killed and "more than a dozen" were injured Tuesday afternoon after a motorist drove onto a busy pedestrian and bicycle path in Manhattan. Police have arrested one suspect in the incident, which unfolded near the World Trade Center, and say there are "no others outstanding."

"Based on the information that we have at this moment this was an act of terror, a particularly cowardly act of terror," New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said at a news conference after visiting the scene.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...several-people

Last edited by E. Q. Taft; 31 October 2017 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 31 October 2017, 09:33 PM
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There are apparently reports of the driver shouting "Allahu Akbar!" NPR is being cautious in its reporting:

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This is a developing story. Some things that get reported by the media will later turn out to be wrong. We will focus on reports from police officials and other authorities, credible news outlets and reporters who are at the scene. We will update as the situation develops.
I will admit to hoping that the driver was born in the United States, or at least has lived here for a very long time.

Last edited by E. Q. Taft; 31 October 2017 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 31 October 2017, 10:34 PM
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One of the local news channels reported it as a "lone wolf" attack, which to my mind automatically implied the race of said attacker, as being white. Obviously I'm wrong after seeing more news about it. But I hate the fact that I automatically assume white=lone wolf, whereas non-white=terrorist.

It's a horrific situation, regardless.
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Old 31 October 2017, 10:37 PM
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Several media outlets are now identifying the suspect as Sayfullo Saipov, an Uzbek national who entered the US in 2010. I don't believe this has yet been confirmed by the authorities.
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Old 31 October 2017, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mochrie99 View Post
One of the local news channels reported it as a "lone wolf" attack, which to my mind automatically implied the race of said attacker, as being white. Obviously I'm wrong after seeing more news about it. But I hate the fact that I automatically assume white=lone wolf, whereas non-white=terrorist.
I'm not sure that's your fault as much as it is the media and/or government. After the Vegas shooting, I recall some discussion of the subject, noting that when a white is suspected of what we would normally call a terrorist attack, he's usually referred to as a "lone wolf," where as if it was someone of Middle Eastern extraction, they would immediately assume a link to Islamist terror groups.

Obviously we don't know much about this one yet, but the implication at least is that they're assuming that even if the suspect's motivation is based on Islamism, they don't think it's part of any coordinated attack, and there may not be a direct link or history of contacts with any particular group.
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Old 31 October 2017, 10:56 PM
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The President has reportedly tweeted: "We must not allow ISIS to return, or enter, our country after defeating them in the Middle East and elsewhere. Enough!"

Isn't it too early to politicize this...?
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Old 31 October 2017, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mochrie99 View Post
One of the local news channels reported it as a "lone wolf" attack, which to my mind automatically implied the race of said attacker, as being white. Obviously I'm wrong after seeing more news about it. But I hate the fact that I automatically assume white=lone wolf, whereas non-white=terrorist.

It's a horrific situation, regardless.
Well, I notice that the suspect was a Muslim and media reports are immediately labeling it terrorism.
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Old 31 October 2017, 11:43 PM
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To be fair, I had only just heard about the attack briefly, and the newscaster said "lone wolf" in their description. But every other news article I looked at online afterwards mentioned "terrorist". I didn't even hear any description of the attacker, it was very early on when I didn't hear any of the details. It must have just happened when I caught that news report on TV.
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Old 01 November 2017, 01:57 PM
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I genuinely don't understand why there is always an obsession with whether acts like this are "acts of terrorism", with a strong implication that it's radical Islamist terrorism. I really don't care.

A man drove a truck down a bike path, killed 8 people and wounded others. That's a crime, and a terrible one. Whatever his affiliations, it's terrorism if people become terrorized. Even though I live in the area, this act has made me no more or less fearful of terrorists - Islamist or otherwise - or random nutjobs who want to kill strangers. (In fact, is there really that much of a difference?) The threat, which is small, existed both before and after this incident.
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Old 01 November 2017, 02:37 PM
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Default NYC terror suspect Sayfullo Saipov brags about attack from hospital bed

The suspect in Tuesday's terrorist attack in lower Manhattan bragged to police about the deadly attack from his hospital bed, saying he would have continued mowing down bikers and pedestrians had he not crashed.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-yor...-hospital-bed/
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Old 01 November 2017, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
The President has reportedly tweeted: "We must not allow ISIS to return, or enter, our country after defeating them in the Middle East and elsewhere. Enough!"

Isn't it too early to politicize this...?
Apparently not...

Trump: Suspect Entered U.S. in ‘Diversity Visa Lottery,’ Blames Schumer

Interesting, isn't it, that it's always too soon to talk about what we're going to do about a mass shooting right after it happens, but not something like this?

~Psihala
(*"Priorities, priorities. Besides, we might piss off the gun lobby and that might not get me re-elected!")
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Old 01 November 2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ChasFink View Post
I genuinely don't understand why there is always an obsession with whether acts like this are "acts of terrorism", with a strong implication that it's radical Islamist terrorism. I really don't care.
Because similar acts, like what happened in Charleston mere months ago, do not immediately get the same label if they're not carried out by a suspected Muslim.
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Old 01 November 2017, 05:26 PM
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To expand a bit upon that, when such an act performed by a white guy, lots of people are quick to emphasize how such an act is an outlier, a random act unassociated with anyone or anything else. But when such an act is performed by a non-WASP, those same people are dog-whistling all over the place how such an act is a clear pattern, with obvious associations and assumptions that can be made about anyone that shares those non-WASP characteristics.
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Old 01 November 2017, 06:10 PM
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I think there is a reasonable interest (a) in wanting to know the motivation of the perpetrator, and (b) in wanting to know if it's an isolated incident, or if it might be part of a larger plan, if there might be other people involved, and so forth. Certainly one of the fascinating/frightening things about the Las Vegas shootings is that we really have no idea of the motivation behind it: why it happened at all, why the selection of that particular target, etc.

Where I think prejudice comes into it is that if the Vegas shooter had been of Middle Eastern extraction, from an Islamic country, or was a practicing Muslim, there would almost certainly be an assumption that Islamic extremism was probably the motivating factor, even if there was absolutely no other evidence to that effect. Similarly, if he'd been black, there would probably be every attempt to tie it to Black Lives Matter or a similar group/movement, even in the absence of any known link.

Since he was just a "normal" white guy, with no known extreme or unusual political views....we don't even really have a guess.
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Old 01 November 2017, 06:48 PM
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Old friends from Argentina reunited in New York. Five died together in a terrorist attack.

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Through the decades — despite job changes, marriage, children, moves to far-flung corners of the world — they remained close friends. And on Saturday, eight of the former classmates gathered to fly to the United States to celebrate their 30th graduation anniversary.

It is unclear when exactly they arrived in New York; they had planned to stop in Boston, to meet up with another former classmate. But what is certain is that on Tuesday — a beautiful, brisk fall afternoon in Manhattan — the men rode bicycles along a bike path flanking the Hudson River.
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Old 02 November 2017, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
I think there is a reasonable interest (a) in wanting to know the motivation of the perpetrator, and (b) in wanting to know if it's an isolated incident, or if it might be part of a larger plan, if there might be other people involved, and so forth.
To expand on my previous post: I do recognize that these are important issues for law enforcement and possibly preventing further attacks if there is indeed a conspiracy. But simply trying to find out if it fits the label "terrorism" is useless. A lone wolf who's inspired by ISIS/ISIL/Daesh (or any other terroris organization) is a terrorist, but not really part of a conspiracy.
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Old 02 November 2017, 08:17 PM
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If I can add to that...must we invariably label every terror attack as "cowardly"? Is there a point? Is there a kind of terror attack that we wouldn't call cowardly? I suppose it's intended to be demeaning, to try to avoid having them seen as heroic martyrs, but I highly doubt it particularly affects the feelings of anyone likely to follow in their footsteps. (It also seems frankly a bit hypocritical when one of the main weapons we use against terrorists is drone strikes..)

One other odd point about the attack: when the suspect exited the vehicle, he was carrying two simulated firearms (a pellet gun and a paint ball gun, I believe -- something like that). Why? It would obviously make him a target -- had he appeared unarmed, the police might not have shot him immediately (though that's certainly not guaranteed). Possibly that was his intent -- he might not have wanted to be taken alive; he probably didn't expect to be. But in that case, or if he thought that he might be able to use them in a getaway (threatening to shoot hostages, or something)...why not just get a real gun? (You don't suppose gun laws might have actually stopped him....?)
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Old 02 November 2017, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
If I can add to that...must we invariably label every terror attack as "cowardly"? Is there a point? Is there a kind of terror attack that we wouldn't call cowardly? I suppose it's intended to be demeaning, to try to avoid having them seen as heroic martyrs, but I highly doubt it particularly affects the feelings of anyone likely to follow in their footsteps. (It also seems frankly a bit hypocritical when one of the main weapons we use against terrorists is drone strikes..)
I suspect that it has everything to do with messaging. Keeping our spirits from plumetting and keeping their spirits down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
One other odd point about the attack: when the suspect exited the vehicle, he was carrying two simulated firearms (a pellet gun and a paint ball gun, I believe -- something like that). Why? It would obviously make him a target -- had he appeared unarmed, the police might not have shot him immediately (though that's certainly not guaranteed). Possibly that was his intent -- he might not have wanted to be taken alive; he probably didn't expect to be. But in that case, or if he thought that he might be able to use them in a getaway (threatening to shoot hostages, or something)...why not just get a real gun? (You don't suppose gun laws might have actually stopped him....?)
I don't think for a second the US gun laws stopped him from having weapons. I suspect that he could not access them for other reasons. The exiting with simulated weapons looks like an attempt at martyrdom. And it is a failed attempt. His bravado in custody right now lets me think that he is looking to get executed, so he can achieve that martyrdom.
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Old 02 November 2017, 09:05 PM
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I certainly wouldn't bet against his being executed eventually. President Trump has called for the death penalty, though he has apparently backed off a threat to send him to Gitmo.

I doubt gun laws would have kept him from getting a gun if he had been determined, but they might have made it inconvenient enough that he decided it wasn't worth the bother. (I believe NYC has stricter gun laws than many areas of the country, though I am not certain.)
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  #20  
Old 02 November 2017, 11:01 PM
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Default Experts: Trump Tweets Could Sabotage Prosecutors in Truck Attack

If the Uzbek immigrant charged with the deadly terrorist pickup-truck attack in New York City escapes the executioner, he may have President Donald Trump to thank for saving his life.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ny...attack-n816946
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