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  #21  
Old 21 March 2017, 07:59 PM
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Osteopaths still practice, just look for someone with a D.O. instead of an M.D. after their name. (They're a bit harder to find, but I think you'd have luck finding someone near you- Ohio has a large school of osteopathic medicine, so I'd imagine there are practitioners within reasonable distance)

There is scientifically supported research to show that manipulation is effective treatment for certain ailments/conditions, etc. A good Dr. with osteopathic training knows when that would be more useful/less harmful than meds, and also won't try to "sell" anyone that their diabetes can be cured or that their tumor could be manipulated away or anything like that. In my experience, D.O.s dislike chiropractors because of the reasons we've mentioned here, and people falsely equate the two (chiropracty and osteopathy).
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  #22  
Old 21 March 2017, 08:07 PM
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I see a DO regularly, have for most of my life (not the same DO). But it's been decades since I've seen one that did the old-fashioned back-snapping adjustments. That was starting to lose favor in the early 80s when I was simulated patient at an osteopathic medical school, in favor of gentler "muscle energy" adjustments.

ETA: Two my siblings and I were born, and I had my daughter, at an osteopathic hospital near Akron that was founded sometime in the first half of the 20th century, when local hospitals apparently wouldn't give privileges to DOs. Akron trivia: LeBron James' first two children were also born there.
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  #23  
Old 21 March 2017, 08:59 PM
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In the early 90s when I was in college one of my buds was a med student at the nearby osteopathic medical school. He did give good back rubs but you could all hear him counting the vertebrae under his breath. LOL
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  #24  
Old 21 March 2017, 09:04 PM
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It's actually sort of difficult to find an MD primary care in my immediate vicinity. I see a DO, and he does adjustments occasionally.
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  #25  
Old 22 March 2017, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
See, chiropractors are not real doctors.
They specialize in spinal realignment. Just as you wouldn't go to a dentist to fix a broken arm, you'd only consult a chiropractor to deal with problems related to spinal misalignment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
It's amazing how many feel like chiropractors are not only real doctors but are better real doctors than doctors are.
They are better at what they are trained to do. See my point above.

Having said that, being a chiropractor has nothing to do with his invention. They might have said he was a Scientologist for all the relevancy.
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  #26  
Old 22 March 2017, 03:17 AM
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Unlike chiropractor, Scientologist doesn't imply "not an actual medical doctor much less one who would have knowledge about the relevant subjects" - which was the point.

ETA - The questions of whether they are real doctors or not or whether the "spinal realignment" they do is necessary or beneficial are more nuanced. I leave those to the rather awesome Dr Novella:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chi...erview-part-i/
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chi...rview-part-ii/

Last edited by ganzfeld; 22 March 2017 at 03:30 AM.
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  #27  
Old 22 March 2017, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Unlike chiropractor, Scientologist doesn't imply "not an actual medical doctor much less one who would have knowledge about the relevant subjects" - which was the point.
Except that it wasn't the point. Being a chiropractor has nothing to do with the guy "inventing" his glue. Unless that invention was to do with spinal alignment (such as inversion tables or spine stretching devices), then him being a chiropractor is irrelevant.
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  #28  
Old 22 March 2017, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
They specialize in spinal realignment. Just as you wouldn't go to a dentist to fix a broken arm, you'd only consult a chiropractor to deal with problems related to spinal misalignment.
No more than I'd consult an astrologer for psychiatric help. Chiropractors don't get actual medical degrees, their practice isn't based on real medicine: it's New Age mumbo jumbo with a thin veneer of scientific terminology over the top.
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  #29  
Old 22 March 2017, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
Except that it wasn't the point. Being a chiropractor has nothing to do with the guy "inventing" his glue. Unless that invention was to do with spinal alignment (such as inversion tables or spine stretching devices), then him being a chiropractor is irrelevant.
Actually, you're missing the point again. Unless his "glue" has something to do with (possibly phoney baloney subluxation) spinal alignment, there is a legitimate question as to whether he should be inventing medical devices for any other purpose without the concerted help of qualified experts, which he obviously never had.

Yes, they might not have reported his occupation if it had been postman or some other non-doctor profession but it is not the case that a large portion of postmen claim to be medical professionals while at the same time supporting some long refuted pseudoscience.
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  #30  
Old 23 March 2017, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
Yes, they might not have reported his occupation if it had been postman or some other non-doctor profession but it is not the case that a large portion of postmen claim to be medical professionals while at the same time supporting some long refuted pseudoscience.
That was my point. Chiropractors don't claim to be experts in gynecology.

As far as whether chiropractory works, I use it. It helps me be able to walk upright after too many car and motorbike crashes. A "real" doctor" prescribes pain killers. My chiropractor fixes the problem and the pain goes away. If that's not real, I don't care. It works for me. I wouldn't go to him to get a tooth cavity fixed, but he fixes my spinal misalignment.
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  #31  
Old 23 March 2017, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
That was my point. Chiropractors don't claim to be experts in gynecology.
I don't understand what's so hard to understand. No one said chiropractors claim to be experts. The fact that his expertise is outside the relevant field is relevant to the discussion.

Last edited by ganzfeld; 23 March 2017 at 05:34 AM.
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  #32  
Old 23 March 2017, 11:56 AM
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I haven't seen anyone here claim that chiropractors are entirely fake, or that they don't help anybody, or that people shouldn't go see them. This particular chiropractor is out of his element and should stick to something he knows about.
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  #33  
Old 23 March 2017, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
... should stick to something he knows about.
Groan.
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  #34  
Old 23 March 2017, 06:40 PM
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LOL, sorry, wasn't even intentional.
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  #35  
Old 24 March 2017, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
I don't understand what's so hard to understand. No one said chiropractors claim to be experts. The fact that his expertise is outside the relevant field is relevant to the discussion.
Let me explain it to you, as you seem to be having trouble. I said the guy's occupation was irrelevant to the invention, as that is not his area of expertise. I think we can agree at least on that point, as you said similar in you post.

The fact that he is a chiropractor has as much relevancy as if he were a dentist. But I doubt very much they'd have mentioned he is "only" a DDS.

(It seems Chiropractors in Australia have to complete quite a bit more education that they do in the States).
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  #36  
Old 24 March 2017, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
The fact that he is a chiropractor has as much relevancy as if he were a dentist. But I doubt very much they'd have mentioned he is "only" a DDS.
I disagree; I'm sure they would have said "a dentist". It's a very direct way of saying "in an unrelated field". I'm sure it would have contained similar jokes about why dentistry is not an appropriate field of expertise - perhaps with fewer quotation marks for "cavities" since, well, "cavities" unlike "subluxations" do exist. (The OP article doesn't even sound very anti-chiropracty to me. The writer seems more concerned this will just be more bad for the image of chiropractics who want to be taken seriously as medical professionals.)

Yet, again, it is not the case that a large number of dentists are promoting long debunked pseudosciences. Is it any better in Australia? Let's ask someone who knows more:
http://theconversation.com/is-the-ch...oscience-47147

Last edited by ganzfeld; 24 March 2017 at 08:10 AM.
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  #37  
Old 24 March 2017, 09:17 AM
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Whalephant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I see a DO regularly, have for most of my life (not the same DO). But it's been decades since I've seen one that did the old-fashioned back-snapping adjustments. That was starting to lose favor in the early 80s when I was simulated patient at an osteopathic medical school, in favor of gentler "muscle energy" adjustments.

ETA: Two my siblings and I were born, and I had my daughter, at an osteopathic hospital near Akron that was founded sometime in the first half of the 20th century, when local hospitals apparently wouldn't give privileges to DOs. Akron trivia: LeBron James' first two children were also born there.
Osteopaths have changed quite a bit over the years: they used to think that manipulating bones would solve about everything. Now in the U.S. at least they are pretty much indistinguishable from an MD. My father was seen by them when he was in a local hospital's rehab in 2015 for muscle loss due to a hospital stay (from a bad side effect of Crestor) and had nothing but good things to say about them. Knowing him, he quizzed them on their DO curriculum, where they'd done their residency, etc.
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