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  #21  
Old 17 May 2013, 12:43 PM
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People had the free will to choose to be or not to be victims of concentration camps? Bringing free will into this subject makes me literally want to throw up.
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  #22  
Old 18 May 2013, 03:49 PM
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I really don't think anyone said that, Ganz. They said some people teach that evil results because God gave humans free will. I assumed the evil they were explaining was what the Nazis did, not what their victims did. I also read it as an explanation of what some people believe, not an endorsement of it.
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  #23  
Old 18 May 2013, 04:14 PM
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But it is the implication of the argument that God allows bad things to happen because he gave people free will.
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  #24  
Old 18 May 2013, 05:07 PM
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Yes, but that's not what Ganzfeld said. And again, no one embraced the theology, they just explained it.
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  #25  
Old 18 May 2013, 09:50 PM
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I didn't say someone here made me want to throw up either. That theology makes me want to throw up.
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  #26  
Old 18 May 2013, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
But it is the implication of the argument that God allows bad things to happen because he gave people free will.
Yep, pretty much. It might make people cross as an argument but that's the basic idea.

Dropbear

For the record it is not an idea I endorse but I prefer it to the "God has a plan we can't see but is ultimately perfect" one I got raised with.
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  #27  
Old 18 May 2013, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzfeld View Post
I didn't say someone here made me want to throw up either. That theology makes me want to throw up.
I understand that. But has anyone ever suggested that people ended up in concentration camps because of their own free will? I don't think believing in free will means denying that anyone can ever be forced to do something against their will.
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  #28  
Old 19 May 2013, 12:12 AM
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It implies that free will is the source of suffering. But if the suffering is by people whose free will didn't cause the suffering then it makes no difference whether it was the free will of some other people or the free will of some deity. Free will doesn't answer the question and its discussion only insults those victims as if they were to blame for other people's free will or it were their own free will that caused them to be victims.
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  #29  
Old 19 May 2013, 12:18 AM
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I agree with you in part, but I don't see the point of making a wrongheaded concept unmentionable. How else does one point out that it's wrongheaded?

And as I said in another thread recently, I can only respond to what you actually post. Sometimes our attempts to shorthand things detract from our ability to make a point.
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  #30  
Old 19 May 2013, 12:37 AM
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I didn't have any point. I just wanted to say I was nauseated.
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