snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Soapbox Derby

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15 July 2016, 09:08 PM
A Turtle Named Mack's Avatar
A Turtle Named Mack A Turtle Named Mack is offline
 
Join Date: 21 June 2007
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 21,441
Chicken Turkey’s Army Says It Seized Power as Premier Vows to Resist

Turkey’s army says it seized power in the country as warplanes flew over the capital and tanks blocked roads in Istanbul. Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said his government is still in control and will resist.

The army said in an e-mailed statement that it took power to restore freedom and democracy. It said all international agreements will be honored.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...to-seize-power
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15 July 2016, 09:49 PM
Richard W's Avatar
Richard W Richard W is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2000
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 24,831
Default

Well, Erdogan didn't seem terribly popular with anybody...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15 July 2016, 10:00 PM
Coughdrops Coughdrops is offline
 
 
Join Date: 15 June 2015
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 786
Default

Quote:
The army said in an e-mailed statement that it took power to restore freedom and democracy
Naturally I'm skeptical of that. Not that I liked Erdogan's paling around with Islamists any better. Well, let's see what happens.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15 July 2016, 10:05 PM
Mr. Billion's Avatar
Mr. Billion Mr. Billion is offline
 
Join Date: 09 July 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,421
Default

A bad day for Turkish democracy. Erdogan was already assaulting democratic principles, but a coup isn't democracy either.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16 July 2016, 02:10 AM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,586
Military

Neither Erdogan remaining in power nor the military taking it from him is going to end well for the people of Turkey

Anyway, here's an interesting breakdown from Vox of what's going on with the coup and its effects on Turkish politics.

Turkey’s coup: A Turkish politics expert on why it looks like a failed attempt
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16 July 2016, 04:13 AM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 12,885
Default

Quote:
Erdogan called the coup a "gift from God" because it will help Turkey clean out the military from the "members of this gang." The timing of the coup was "meaningful," because the military will start meetings in the beginning of August, and those who staged the coup were afraid of the decisions that would be made at those meetings, Erdogan said.

"This is not old Turkey," he said. "This is new Turkey."
In other words, this gives him all the justification he needs to accelerate rooting out moderates, secularists, and political opponents from positions of authority, so he can shore up absolute power for his allies.

Whatever "new Turkey" is, it sounds ominous. If he continues down this road, we really need Turkey out of NATO. It's becoming a joke that they're still part of it, while increasingly working to undermine their "allies". If they go full theocracy, as appears to be Erdogan's goal, then we need to stop the charade that they have our back.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16 July 2016, 04:35 AM
Mouse's Avatar
Mouse Mouse is offline
 
Join Date: 10 July 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,481
Mouse

So if Turkey goes full theocracy, I wonder if that means we can stop tiptoeing around the whole Armenian Genocide issue. Just kind of curious.

But even if they go full theocracy, we'll probably still be allied with them, so long as they remember their place. We're allies with Saudi Arabia, which is run by a repressive monarchy that has a history of supporting Islamic terrorism, yet the monarchs do a good enough job of licking boot, so we turn a blind eye to their abuses.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16 July 2016, 04:44 AM
Rebochan's Avatar
Rebochan Rebochan is offline
 
Join Date: 19 February 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 11,586
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
Whatever "new Turkey" is, it sounds ominous.
Indeed. He's been a monster already, but this just enables him to be even more dangerous.

Meanwhile, the people attempting the coup were attacking unarmed civilians, including a tank running over a taxi with people inside.

As I said... neither outcome is positive
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 16 July 2016, 04:47 AM
Errata's Avatar
Errata Errata is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 12,885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
But even if they go full theocracy, we'll probably still be allied with them, so long as they remember their place. We're allies with Saudi Arabia, which is run by a repressive monarchy that has a history of supporting Islamic terrorism, yet the monarchs do a good enough job of licking boot, so we turn a blind eye to their abuses.
Maybe. They're not much of an oil producer, so if they are no longer reliable for military or security purposes, we have less reason to overlook anything than for Saudi Arabia.

Hopefully someday we'll work out the challenges with scaling up solar power, or possibly even fusion, and use predominantly electric vehicles, so that oil stops dominating our foreign policy.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 17 July 2016, 09:06 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
Join Date: 29 December 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 6,365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
Maybe. They're not much of an oil producer, so if they are no longer reliable for military or security purposes, we have less reason to overlook anything than for Saudi Arabia.
Given the geographic location I would expect the US (hence NATO) to pretty much ignore any internal "problems" in Turkey. Turkey has a heck of a lot of border with non-NATO countries and that makes it very important to NATO. The US's support of the Shah of Iran was largely due to Iran's border with the USSR. That border was more important to the US than how the Shah treated the citizens of Iran.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17 July 2016, 09:51 PM
NobleHunter's Avatar
NobleHunter NobleHunter is offline
 
Join Date: 21 September 2005
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Posts: 521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
Given the geographic location I would expect the US (hence NATO) to pretty much ignore any internal "problems" in Turkey. Turkey has a heck of a lot of border with non-NATO countries and that makes it very important to NATO. The US's support of the Shah of Iran was largely due to Iran's border with the USSR. That border was more important to the US than how the Shah treated the citizens of Iran.
Considering how supporting the Shah worked out for the US, I'm not sure it's good logic. Well, assuming the US is capable of learning from its mistakes.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17 July 2016, 10:54 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
Join Date: 29 December 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 6,365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NobleHunter View Post
Considering how supporting the Shah worked out for the US, I'm not sure it's good logic. Well, assuming the US is capable of learning from its mistakes.
I can't think of any examples. Heck, we don't even learn from our successes.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18 July 2016, 01:09 PM
dfresh dfresh is offline
 
Join Date: 11 November 2005
Location: Oxford, PA
Posts: 3,634
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
I can't think of any examples. Heck, we don't even learn from our successes.
The Philippines with Marcos. There we didn't ride all the way down with our chosen dictator, we cut him lose and supported the new waves of more democratic leadership. Other than that...um...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 18 July 2016, 02:17 PM
Seaboe Muffinchucker's Avatar
Seaboe Muffinchucker Seaboe Muffinchucker is offline
 
Join Date: 30 June 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,029
Glasses

I have a Turkish friend, who believes the coup may have been a set up to enable the government to crack down even harder on personal freedoms.



Seaboe
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18 July 2016, 03:04 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is online now
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 72,652
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
I can't think of any examples. Heck, we don't even learn from our successes.
That's painfully astute.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18 July 2016, 03:20 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
 
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 7,144
Default

As near as I can tell, the lesson we took from Vietnam was 'Declare victory and get out quick, before it all falls apart!'

Unfortunately, by Gulf II we'd forgotten even that part.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 18 July 2016, 03:49 PM
crescent crescent is offline
 
 
Join Date: 13 August 2008
Location: Right here
Posts: 2,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfresh View Post
The Philippines with Marcos. There we didn't ride all the way down with our chosen dictator, we cut him lose and supported the new waves of more democratic leadership. Other than that...um...
We've done that often - the Shah of Iran, Samoza in Nicaragua, Pinochet, Batista, and many others. More recently, Mubarak in Egypt and Gyanendra in Nepal.

One catch is that we didn't always like what we got later (think of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt or the Ayatollah in Iran), or later U.S. administrations were hostile to whoever replaced our chosen dictator (Reagan's hostility to the Sandanistas, for example).

The biggest issue, of course, is that we supported such dictators in the first place. People tend to not see the U.S. in a much better light after we stop supporting this or that tyrant. They mostly just remember that we were the ones who supported the tyrant for a decade or five.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 18 July 2016, 04:00 PM
Lainie's Avatar
Lainie Lainie is online now
 
Join Date: 29 August 2005
Location: Suburban Columbus, OH
Posts: 72,652
Default

In some cases, not only do we support them for decades, but we're the ones who put him in power. And those resentments sow the seeds of the stuff we get later that we don't like.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 18 July 2016, 04:17 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is online now
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 23,771
Default

Which can lead to us supporting a dictator in a rival country to counter the threat of the group that replaced the first US-supported dictator.

It is like a very serious real-life version of the old woman who swallowed the fly.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 18 July 2016, 05:31 PM
dfresh dfresh is offline
 
Join Date: 11 November 2005
Location: Oxford, PA
Posts: 3,634
United States

I do often wonder what the world would be like if the US actually followed our principles and supported leaders in other countries who did also, instead of backing people who we could count on to fight communism, maintain order, fight radical Islam, etc.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why lies about Obama resist the truth Canuckistan Politics 21 04 November 2013 02:25 PM
More than 100 horses seized in Morton County A Turtle Named Mack Wild Kingdom 5 30 January 2013 10:57 PM
Woman Vows to Only Eat at Starbucks snopes The Bad Gastronomer 32 18 January 2013 12:41 PM
Gun Seized After Katrina? NRA Wants You snopes Hurricane Katrina 1 31 December 2007 02:12 AM
Kerry Vows to Disprove Swift Boat Claims snopes Politics 9 19 November 2007 02:57 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.