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Old 22 February 2016, 07:26 PM
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This a continuation of the old thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erwins View Post
I also think there's a different connotation between the phrases "makes you uncomfortable," and "is making you uncomfortable." The latter suggests behavior, in my opinion.
I agree, "makes you" suggests a general state, "is making you" suggests an ongoing action.

Magdalene and Mouse, in reply to your comments about society's expectation for a woman to be polite when a man is making her uncomfortable, I also found that my daughter naturally did it in response to the first boy who got lurky with her, and had to be specifically taught that sometimes degrees of coldness is appropriate.

She had never really been in a social situation where she was supposed to communicate rejection to a peer (they were 12 when he started following her around), and her dad and I both had to sit her down and convince her it wasn't just ok, but necessary. In our culture we teach kids to be nice and play with the weird ones (everyone gets invited, everyone gets a valentine), but the rules suddenly change when puberty hits.

Anyway, she started gently and it worked, but it was a transition she had to be guided through. So did he, though, we learned later his mom had sat him down, too.
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Old 22 February 2016, 11:09 PM
Magdalene Magdalene is offline
 
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I think one of the problems with trying to 'rewrite' the meme, is there's really no good way to do it. You could rewrite it as, "Somebody whose behavior is making them uncomfortable," but in the examples I cited, maybe the men aren't doing anything wrong, or anything obviously wrong--the guy in the laundry room might genuinely be there to do laundry, or he could be going through the motions of doing his laundry to put women off guard. But maybe by the very fact that it's midnight, and it's just the two of them there makes the woman uncomfortable when she pops her head in and sees there's a guy in there, and she'd be alone with him. Maybe he sees her, and she immediately turns heel and leaves, and maybe he's a genuinely nice guy who wonders "What was all that about?"--or maybe he's a rapist who realizes potential prey escaped and might be notifying somebody there's a strange guy lurking in the laundry room.

Either way, the guy didn't do anything aside from *be* there. But if you rewrite the meme as, "Women are not obliged to be polite in a situation that makes them uncomfortable,"--then you go back to the 'refusing to sit next to blacks' or whatever examples got brought up earlier.

I think the only thing that can be done is leave the meme alone, and trust everybody has the brains to figure out what it actually means--that if a woman feels her safety could be at risk, she's not obliged to be nice. Better she be rude to a papal candidate then polite to the next Ted Bundy.
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Old 23 February 2016, 07:05 PM
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Speaking of Ted Bundy I remember reading an article written about a woman who was approached by Ted Bundy, she related that he wanted her help to perform some task or another - I am not remembering this clearly but it was something like helping him put something in his car because he had hurt his hand - anyway she turned him down and of course at the time felt bad because here she was not being nice and helpful to someone who asked a favour. Of course what she did was not fall into his trap - Bundy being the extreme example of men who count on polite women being nice.
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Old 23 February 2016, 07:12 PM
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This gif is a great moment from Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt (the woman in the gif is explaining to Matt Lauer the events that led to her abduction and subsequent years-long imprisonment by a cult leader).

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Old 23 February 2016, 07:42 PM
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On a much less dire level, I've had a few instances where women have gone out on dates with me because they felt like they had to accept the invitation in order to be polite. I didn't realize it beforehand, but once we were out it was pretty obvious and that's just terrible. It's really so much better to say no and risk being rude than to accept a date with someone you're not actually interested in in order to be "polite."
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Old 23 February 2016, 08:01 PM
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A Facebook friend of mine posted about having turned down a man's request for her number after they had chatted briefly on a train. He didn't give her the creeps or anything, she just wasn't interested in going out with him.

One of her male friends commented on the post saying that that the guy must have been disappointed, and why couldn't she just have given him her number?

I posted something to the effect of: She didn't give him her number because she wasn't interested in going out with him. If she did give him her number to avoid disappointing him, and he calls her and asks her out, should she say yes and go on a date to avoid disappointing him? What about when he asks for a second date? When does she get to say "no, thank you"?
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Old 23 February 2016, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Speaking of Ted Bundy I remember reading an article written about a woman who was approached by Ted Bundy, she related that he wanted her help to perform some task or another - I am not remembering this clearly but it was something like helping him put something in his car because he had hurt his hand - anyway she turned him down and of course at the time felt bad because here she was not being nice and helpful to someone who asked a favour. Of course what she did was not fall into his trap - Bundy being the extreme example of men who count on polite women being nice.
That sounds like a scene from Silence of the Lambs, where Buffalo Bill has a fake cast and takes the Senator's daughter when she helps him out. Sounds like this might be where that scene comes from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
A Facebook friend of mine posted about having turned down a man's request for her number after they had chatted briefly on a train. He didn't give her the creeps or anything, she just wasn't interested in going out with him.

One of her male friends commented on the post saying that that the guy must have been disappointed, and why couldn't she just have given him her number?

I posted something to the effect of: She didn't give him her number because she wasn't interested in going out with him. If she did give him her number to avoid disappointing him, and he calls her and asks her out, should she say yes and go on a date to avoid disappointing him? What about when he asks for a second date? When does she get to say "no, thank you"?
I think that politeness demands at least 30 years of marriage before she can say that.
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Old 23 February 2016, 10:01 PM
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This whole discussion kinda made me think about something that happened when I was in Uni. I would often take the 6.15 am train to go from my hometown to Uni.
One time I sat down in a corner seat of a completely empty carriage, planning to have a nap, when a man sat down next to me. I was definitely annoyed and felt very uncomfortable, but I didn't move, yes, because I didn't want to see rude. (that and the fact the guy was rather massive and I would've had to climb over him.)
As you can imagine, I didn't take that nap.
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Old 24 February 2016, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Credence View Post
That sounds like a scene from Silence of the Lambs, where Buffalo Bill has a fake cast and takes the Senator's daughter when she helps him out. Sounds like this might be where that scene comes from.
It was one of Bundy's ruses apparently to put on fake casts or the like and ask for help getting stuff into his car. Does Silence of the Lambs pre-date the Bundy case? Not sure. Anyway it isn't too surprising that people trying to get a victim to go along with them come up with ways to get them into their car - it's the old "come see my puppy little girl" for grown ups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bu...ictim_profiles
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Old 24 February 2016, 12:52 AM
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The movie of Silence of the Lambs was post-Bundy. IDK about the book the film was based on.
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Old 24 February 2016, 01:14 AM
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Ted Bundy was murdering in the 1970's; the novel The Silence of the Lambs was published in 1988.
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  #12  
Old 24 February 2016, 01:15 AM
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I've never seen either and I haven't read the book about Bundy either. It's more than enough to have read about what he did in newspaper accounts and the like. More than enough .
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Old 24 February 2016, 04:40 AM
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. Bundy was definitely before Silence of the Lambs, and I was thinking that the idea for the scene came from Bundy doing that.
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Old 10 March 2016, 01:07 AM
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Yet another Kermit-drinking-iced-tea winner:

"To everyone saying they'll leave the country if Trump wins:
Joke's on you, the airlines don't take EBT...but that's none of my business."

Ha. Ha.
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