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  #1  
Old 23 April 2015, 11:21 PM
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Icon18 'Star Wars' spoiler revealed Darth Vader was Luke's father?

Comment: According to this article the "Spoiler" that Darth Vader is Luke's father
took place two years before the film debuted, and a newspaper clipping was
posted to "prove" it. This was allegedly from a San Francisco Examiner
issue from 1978 with a photo credit going to Nicole Bengiveno:

http://www.retroist.com/2010/11/08/1...wars-spoilers/

The clipping might be fake as the words don't seem to crumple with the
lines on the paper.
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  #2  
Old 24 April 2015, 12:44 AM
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The story I heard, and I may have heard it from Dave Prowse himself, was that Prowse (who had already proven himself willing to let his lips slip) was working from a fake script for TESB, basically saying "Obi-Wan never told you about your father." ... "Yes... I killed your father." So he was as surprised as the audience at the first screening.

There had already been speculation about the relationship well before filming started on TESB; whether it originated from any official or semi-official source I do not know. But friends of mine 'knew' that Darth Vader=Dark Father. And maybe Prowse thought he'd figured it out, too.

ETA: And scrolling down in the article I see that someone else remembers the fake script story.
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  #3  
Old 24 April 2015, 07:29 AM
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When I was growing up, the boy next door was heavily into Star Wars and knew well before TESB came out the Vadar was Luke's father and well before TROTJ the Lea was his sister. I can't say how long before it came out but it was before.
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Old 24 April 2015, 12:22 PM
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Shortly after the Big Reveal (Episode V), it was noted somewhere (a source I read that I cannot cite, sorry) that speakers of Germanic languages had an inkling since Episode IV, since "Darth Vader" literally means "Dark Father". So, it was technically spoiled ever since the very first time Vader was so named, whether in a trailer, or a newspaper/magazine preview article, or the first public presentation of the movie. However, Google Translate doesn't really support that supposition. Perhaps someone on the boards who actually has the appropriate language skills can confirm or deny?

Meanwhile, when I was a lad, I was taking painting lessons from a woman who was an incredible Star Wars fan; she had (or at least seemed to have) every Star Wars book published - mostly art books, of course - and as I was a voracious reader, I read all of those books during breaks. I distinctly recall reading in them (no cites, sorry) that there were supposed to be 9 movies in the series, and that the "next three" (our episodes 1-3) would reveal the origin of Darth Vader, who was related to Luke, and was massively injured during a lightsaber duel in a volcano. So there was that, in the years after A New Hope and before The Empire Strikes back.
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Old 24 April 2015, 02:56 PM
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Looking at that clipping, the title appears to be in Arial font, which did not exist until 1982.

This clipping is allegedly from 1978.

I am not a font expert, but I compared every character to the Arial font set visible on Wikipedia and I'm convinced they are the same.
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  #6  
Old 24 April 2015, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
Looking at that clipping, the title appears to be in Arial font, which did not exist until 1982.

This clipping is allegedly from 1978.

I am not a font expert, but I compared every character to the Arial font set visible on Wikipedia and I'm convinced they are the same.
I can't see the image right now, but are you sure it's Arial and not Helvetica?
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  #7  
Old 24 April 2015, 03:25 PM
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I can watch it again to get the exact one, but according to one of the documentaries on the Blu Rays, only Lucas, Kershner, Lawrence Kasdan, Mark Hamill, and James Earl Jones knew. Everyone else got a fake script that had Vader saying Obi Wan killed his father. It was not revealed by Prowse, and he has said repeatedly that he was surprised when he found out. He was asked when he was at the Salt Lake Comic Con what his reaction was, and he said he complained to the director that he would have acted the scene differently had he known.
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Old 24 April 2015, 03:52 PM
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Alan Dean Foster also knew, as he ghost-wrote the novelizations for all three of the original Star Wars trilogies.
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Old 24 April 2015, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rujasu View Post
I can't see the image right now, but are you sure it's Arial and not Helvetica?
I thought about that, and just went back to confirm.

The difference I used, as I read it in the Helvetica article on Wikipedia (your link), is that in Helvetica, all ends of letters are either upright or flat (eg parallel to the edges of the paper upon which it is written). Meanwhile, the end of the characters, such as the letter 'a' in the title, are not parallel, but slanted. That is an indication of Arial.

Again, I am merely an amateur detective when it comes to fonts.
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  #10  
Old 25 April 2015, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crius of CoH View Post
I distinctly recall reading in them (no cites, sorry) that there were supposed to be 9 movies in the series, and that the "next three" (our episodes 1-3) would reveal the origin of Darth Vader, who was related to Luke, and was massively injured during a lightsaber duel in a volcano. So there was that, in the years after A New Hope and before The Empire Strikes back.
The same boy next door told me that too. There would be 9 movies in all, but that is all.

I have also heard Lucus say.

1. He wrote a story that covered 9 movies in all but felt with the special effects technology available at the time he felt he could only do justice to the middle three, ep 4-7. So he did them.

2. As a child/young man he would go to the movies pre tv when the visit include not only the feature film but also a short episode in a serial ie tarzan or flash gordon which would be, for an completely made up example "Tarzan verse the Amazons episode 4" and he wanted to get that feeling. So it was "Star Wars Episode 4 A New Hope"
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Old 27 April 2015, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crius of CoH View Post
Shortly after the Big Reveal (Episode V), it was noted somewhere (a source I read that I cannot cite, sorry) that speakers of Germanic languages had an inkling since Episode IV, since "Darth Vader" literally means "Dark Father". So, it was technically spoiled ever since the very first time Vader was so named, whether in a trailer, or a newspaper/magazine preview article, or the first public presentation of the movie.
I know the "Dark Father" theory is really popular among many fans but it's not true. Among my favorite Star Wars memorabilia is the novelization I bought in December 1976, a Stars Wars comics #1, and a copy of Rolling Stone magazine dated 25 August 1977. (See below.)

The cover story was an interview with George Lucas written by Paul Scanlon. From page 46, here's a portion of the interview (the author's quotes are in italics) where Lucas talks about Vader's origins:
Quote:
It was a whole part of the plot that essentially got cut out. It may be in one of the sequels.

What's the story?

It's about Ben and Luke's father and Vader when they are young Jedi knights. But Vader kills Luke's father, then Ben and Vader have a confrontation, just like they have in Star Wars, and Ben almost kills Vader. As a matter of fact, he falls into a volcanic pit and is one destroyed being.
Making Darth Vader Luke's father was a retcon. Nothing wrong with retcons, in my opinion. Especially how well it worked here.

By the way, I do like how the OP makes it clear that spoilers did not begin with the Internet. Sure, they're more common now and easier to find. However, they've been around as long as I've been in fandom (i.e., since the mid '70s) and certainly much longer.

Brian
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  #12  
Old 27 April 2015, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crius of CoH View Post
Shortly after the Big Reveal (Episode V), it was noted somewhere (a source I read that I cannot cite, sorry) that speakers of Germanic languages had an inkling since Episode IV, since "Darth Vader" literally means "Dark Father".
I have spoken the most common Germanic language my whole life and in that language Vader isn't anything like father.
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  #13  
Old 27 April 2015, 11:12 AM
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"Vader"** means "father" in German itself, but the word for "dark" is "dunkel"*. "Dark father" in German would be "Dunkelvater", if there was such a word. And the German "Vater" is not pronounced anything like Darth Vader's name. It's more like saying "father" in English but with a hard "t" rather than the "th" sound. (Basically "v" = "f" and "d" = "t").

Personally I think "Vader" was chosen because it sounds cool and is supposed to suggest "invader".

(* Although I studied German to GCSE level, most of my ongoing linguistic knowledge comes from beer. Pretty sure "dunkel" is the word for "dark" in other contexts too though...)

(** eta - I'd even misremembered that; it's "Vater" not "Vader". I've corrected the rest of the post.

Last edited by Richard W; 27 April 2015 at 11:17 AM.
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  #14  
Old 27 April 2015, 12:08 PM
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(Sorry, I have to quote you out of order. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasla View Post
2. As a child/young man he would go to the movies pre tv when the visit include not only the feature film but also a short episode in a serial ie tarzan or flash gordon which would be, for an completely made up example "Tarzan verse the Amazons episode 4" and he wanted to get that feeling. So it was "Star Wars Episode 4 A New Hope"
Correct. He was definitely evoking those old serials like Flash Gordon. However, Lucas's plans for sequels prior to the release of Star Wars were never set in stone. From the official Star Wars website:
Quote:
In the original May 1977 release of Star Wars, the opening crawl did not feature an Episode number or the subtitle "A New Hope." Those would be added with the film's April 10, 1981, theatrical re-release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasla View Post
1. He wrote a story that covered 9 movies in all but felt with the special effects technology available at the time he felt he could only do justice to the middle three, ep 4-7. So he did them.
There was also talk of 12 movies at one time. From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Mark Hamill has stated that Lucas told him in 1976, while filming the first film in Tunisia, that four Star Wars trilogies were planned. Lucas suggested Hamill could have a cameo role in Episode IX, which might be filmed in 2011. A Time magazine story in March 1978, quoting Lucas, also contained the assertion there would be 10 further Star Wars films after The Empire Strikes Back. Gary Kurtz was also aware of proposed story elements for Episode VII to IX before 1980.
So, 1, 3, 6, 9, or 12 movies -- take your pick.

Brian
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  #15  
Old 27 April 2015, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEL View Post
I thought about that, and just went back to confirm.

The difference I used, as I read it in the Helvetica article on Wikipedia (your link), is that in Helvetica, all ends of letters are either upright or flat (eg parallel to the edges of the paper upon which it is written). Meanwhile, the end of the characters, such as the letter 'a' in the title, are not parallel, but slanted. That is an indication of Arial.

Again, I am merely an amateur detective when it comes to fonts.

See:
http://www.marksimonson.com/notebook...-to-spot-arial

So that clipping does look like Helvetica to me.

Nick
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Old 27 April 2015, 01:14 PM
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That article is much better than the one I found. I do say it does appear to be Helvetica.

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