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Old 24 May 2013, 01:55 PM
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Flame Stockholm rioting continues for fifth night

Police in Stockholm are to seek reinforcements after youths set cars ablaze and threw stones at police for a fifth night running, officials said. About 30 cars were set on fire in poorer districts in north-western and south-western parts of the Swedish capital on Thursday night, with rioters causing widespread damage to property, including schools. However, a police spokesman said the overnight violence was less intense than in previous nights. Despite Sweden's reputation for equality, the rioting has exposed a faultline between a well-off majority and a minority, often young people with immigrant backgrounds, who cannot find work, lack education and feel marginalised.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...es-fifth-night
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Old 24 May 2013, 02:07 PM
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I was hoping our Swedish correspondents might enlighten us as to what is really going on. Seeing as this article is from The Guardian, there seems to be an attempt to place the blame primarily on economic issues, primarily the gap between the productive and the indigent (though they would not word it that way), but it also acknowledges that it is primarily arising among immigrants (which in Europe almost always means Muslim, especially Turkish - if not in France or Britain where colonial ties allow immigration by different Muslim nationalities - though occasionally it can also mean nonmuslim east European immigrants) and among youth who neither work nor get educations, despite Sweden having one of the most accessible and affordable (to the student at least) educational systems in the world, IIRC. There must be some poor, underclass Swedes, yes? Are they part of this? Or perhaps non-Swedish (ethnically) groups, like Finns, Romani, Jews, etc.? Are they in this? Is it more ethnic/religious or is it truly economic distress?
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Old 24 May 2013, 02:10 PM
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Good points. I am off to Beirut this weekend with one of my Swedish team mates. I'm going to ask him.

I'll let you know what I find out.
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Old 24 May 2013, 02:14 PM
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Here is an article that addresses the ethnic and economic issues more directly, but still is not as explanatory as I would like. Apparently Husby is a neighborhood/suburb of Stockholm, with a lot of immigrants. Some of the Husby residents claim there is hiring discrimination against those who have a Husby address. Others assert that too many of the immigrants came to live off the very generous Swedish dole, and have refused to assimilate either culturally or economically (i.e. by getting an education and seeking a decent job/business).

http://rt.com/news/stockholm-violenc...eak-fires-671/
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Old 24 May 2013, 03:34 PM
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Wait, immigrant almost always means Muslim? Then why are over half of the immigrants to the UK Christian, and only 22% Muslim? (Cite: http://www.brin.ac.uk/news/2012/faith-on-the-move/)

ETA: If you count between EU countries and from outside the EU, Muslims make up 27% of immigrants in European countries... But even if you exclude movement within the EU, Christians still beat out Muslims 42 to 39% (Cite: http://www.pewforum.org/Geography/Re...on-europe.aspx). So pretty clearly immigrant doesn't "almost always" mean Muslim in Europe, as Muslims do not even make up a plurality of the immigrants into Europe excluding migration within the EU...

Last edited by Silkenray; 24 May 2013 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 24 May 2013, 04:25 PM
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I could be wrong think he was more saying it was a sort of code word, in that when there are issues with people either not caring for immigrants or discriminating against them it involves Muslims.

Much in the way when somebody in America says "Illegal Immigrant" they are probably referring to Mexicans even though one can illegally immigrate to America from anywhere. Or when people say "minorities" they typically mean people of color.
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Old 24 May 2013, 09:41 PM
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Oh! Like how people at my old workplace would grumble about immigrants and when I said "Hey, I am one" they told me I didn't count because I'm an American.
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Old 25 May 2013, 05:34 AM
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I was talking about how articles about Europe generally seem to identify immigrants by their origin unless the immigrants are Muslim. Caribbean immigrants to Britain may just be collectively identified as black immigrants, if not as Jamaican or such. Non-Muslim Africans are called African. Romany people - even if not immigrants - are generally so identified. I have not seen references to groups of American, OZ, internal European immigrants (other than Turks) even referred to, probably because they tend to incorporate into their new homes, or at least have not made waves that have gotten reported.

There could be several reasons for this tendency. Perhaps more of the non-Muslim immigrants take homes amongst the traditioanl Brit population. Perhaps it is that the Muslim immigrants come from a number of different countries, but live near each other because of mosque availability and the ability of most to communicate in Arabic, thus making it more sensible to say 'immigrant' than to identify all the various countries they may have some from. And perhaps they stand out as 'immigrant' due to adherence to clearly foreign ways of life which, say, Canadians, do not. I just know that when I have read European articles that speak of 'immigrant' they almost always are speaking specifically of the Muslim immigrants (perhaps not all of those, of course).
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Old 25 May 2013, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
There could be several reasons for this tendency. Perhaps more of the non-Muslim immigrants take homes amongst the traditioanl Brit population. Perhaps it is that the Muslim immigrants come from a number of different countries, but live near each other because of mosque availability and the ability of most to communicate in Arabic, thus making it more sensible to say 'immigrant' than to identify all the various countries they may have some from. And perhaps they stand out as 'immigrant' due to adherence to clearly foreign ways of life which, say, Canadians, do not. I just know that when I have read European articles that speak of 'immigrant' they almost always are speaking specifically of the Muslim immigrants (perhaps not all of those, of course).
I think it's more likely to be straight prejudice. People use "immigrant" in an insinuating sort of way when they don't want to say what they really mean, which is often something offensive.

None of the reasons you suggest appear to be true to me - there's a fairly high Muslim population in High Wycombe, although it's generally been there a while and so a lot of the people (my colleagues at least) are second or third generation immigrants, mostly from a Pakistani background, not a "number of different countries" (And Pakistanis don't usually speak Arabic, they speak Urdu, although all the people I know speak English). As far as I can see, they fit in about as well as anybody. First generation immigrants from South Asia around here are generally Indian (so generally Hindu by default) - I know more first-generation Indian immigrants than Pakistani. Some of those people are planning to return to India at a certain point in their careers, others are here permanently. I think I only know two first-generation immigrants from Pakistan, and one of those is Christian not Muslim.

I can't comment on the Swedish rioting.
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Old 25 May 2013, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
(And Pakistanis don't usually speak Arabic, they speak Urdu, although all the people I know speak English).
I was not trying to suggest that all Muslims speak Arabic as their primary language. From what I have read though, there is a strong cultural preference, or pressure, whatever, to learn to read the 'language of the Koran' in much the same way that Christians used to learn Latin (if educated) and learning at least rudimentary Hebrew is emphasized amongst Jews
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Old 27 May 2013, 03:17 PM
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I talked with my Swedish colleague over beers in Beirut. He is from Stockholm and knows the area very well where the rioting is occurring. According to him, this area is almost exclusively new immigrants to Sweden. He would not classify it as a slum or as being dominated by any one groups of immigrants.

This area has also been very, very hostile to police in the past years. So, my colleague believes that when the one man was shot, the police hating youth took it upon themselves to turn the hatred up and go on the offensive against the police.

As far as economics goes, there are many areas in the Stockholm region where there is huge economic disparity, equal to or greater than that in this neighbourhood. Many of those neighbourhoods are also home to immigrant populations. However, the one thing that is lacking in those neighbourhoods is a socially accepted hatred of the police.

For what it is worth.
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