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  #21  
Old 05 October 2015, 04:33 PM
Elkhound Elkhound is offline
 
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Originally Posted by andrewdiaz View Post
Teachers are the role models for students. So, whatever a teacher does will reflect on students. But, there are no conventions that teachers must not drink. It is up to them whether to keep the habit or not. Though, it is good to avoid situations like consuming alcohol in front of students. If a teacher does so, then students will not respect anymore.

What I have to say is that teachers had better realize themselves that they are the role models for their students. Never let any student to go irrespectful towards you. Do not create such situations.

Teach the health dangers of alcohol consuming to your students. There are many articles, journals, dissertation papers, magazines etc explaining the injurious aspects of alcohol drinking. Keep you students stay away from it.
Someone needs his humor detector recalibrated.
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  #22  
Old 05 October 2015, 05:37 PM
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Dr. Winston O'Boogie Dr. Winston O'Boogie is offline
 
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The sponsor of the Math Club when I was in college made his own wine, and would bring gallons of it to the Math Club parties.

This predated Geeks Who Drink by 30+ year.
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  #23  
Old 05 October 2015, 06:02 PM
Elkhound Elkhound is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dr. Winston O'Boogie View Post
The sponsor of the Math Club when I was in college made his own wine, and would bring gallons of it to the Math Club parties.

This predated Geeks Who Drink by 30+ year.
College is one thing; high school is another.
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  #24  
Old 05 October 2015, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
College is one thing; high school is another.
Yes, in college, you don't need Fake ID to get your drinks...
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  #25  
Old 05 October 2015, 07:43 PM
Dr. Dave Dr. Dave is offline
 
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You do in the U.S.

(First 2-4 years, traditional route, et cetera disclaimers)
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  #26  
Old 05 October 2015, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Dave View Post
You do in the U.S.

(First 2-4 years, traditional route, et cetera disclaimers)
You might not have when Dr. Winston O'Boogie was in college.

I don't remember when they changed it; but the drinking age was 18 when I was in college, and the professors gave sherry parties for the students.

I don't remember significant binge drinking, except maybe at some of the frat houses. That might have been the group of people I spent time around; but my impression is that raising the age has made the problem worse at colleges, not better.
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  #27  
Old 06 October 2015, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
You might not have when Dr. Winston O'Boogie was in college.

I don't remember when they changed it; but the drinking age was 18 when I was in college, and the professors gave sherry parties for the students.

I don't remember significant binge drinking, except maybe at some of the frat houses. That might have been the group of people I spent time around; but my impression is that raising the age has made the problem worse at colleges, not better.
It went the other way here in Australia. I don't know when it went from 21 to 18 but it was before I was born. There was a bit of binge drinking but it wasn't amongst my group of friends.

The school I worked did a winemaking as a subject in chemistry, I believe. I didn't look after the chem class so I don't know what was involved but it was pretty strictly controled. You generally gradutate from high school when you are 17 here in Australia, but that is due to change soon because of the introduction of prep before grade 1 so children start grade 1 at seven instead of six as it has been up to now.
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  #28  
Old 06 October 2015, 02:38 AM
quink quink is offline
 
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We actually had a bar in my university. It was technically in the student union part (along with a small food court and used book store), but it was fully part of the main building. My residence move-in day included a barbecue with coolers of drinks and finished up with a mixer at the bar. Most of the new students were 18-19.
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  #29  
Old 06 October 2015, 12:32 PM
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There was a bar in the student union at my university in the early 80s, even though most students weren't legally able to drink. It's since been turned into a coffee place.
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  #30  
Old 06 October 2015, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Dave View Post
You do in the U.S.

(First 2-4 years, traditional route, et cetera disclaimers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by quink View Post
We actually had a bar in my university. It was technically in the student union part (along with a small food court and used book store), but it was fully part of the main building. My residence move-in day included a barbecue with coolers of drinks and finished up with a mixer at the bar. Most of the new students were 18-19.
I invite you to visit Canada, Dr. Dave!



Like quink said, here, because the age is 18 or 19, most university or college bars are quite busy.

In fact, it's because of college that I learned that bars can't serve alcohol before 11!
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  #31  
Old 06 October 2015, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
You might not have when Dr. Winston O'Boogie was in college.

I don't remember when they changed it; but the drinking age was 18 when I was in college, and the professors gave sherry parties for the students.
Dates and ages vary by state. When I was growing up on the Illinois / Wisconsin border and at the relevent age, the drinking age in Wisconsin was 18 (moved to 19 to "keep it out of the high schools"), while the age in Illinois was 21. There were certain roads you simply did not use on the weekends because of all of the idiots driving from Illinois, getting drunk, and trying to drive back. I was always smart enough to drive to Wisconsin, buy the alcohol, and drive back to Illinois to drink. And stay put afterwards.

IMHO, the age should be 18. At age 18, you are old enough to vote; you are old enough to own real estate; you are old enough to be held accountable for your actions in a court of law. You are considered the age of majority - except you can't drink.
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  #32  
Old 06 October 2015, 02:10 PM
quink quink is offline
 
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One of the things I noticed growing up in places with 18 and 19 as the drinking age was that the culture was different than the all out party some would expect. There was much more emphasis placed on responsible drinking, and my friends and I were almost rabidly anti-drunk-driving - we drank at parties, but no one drove home drunk.

BC had a strong drunk driving campaign at the time, and that included cops coming to speak at the high school about making safe choices if you were going to drink (they also touched on looking out for friends and issues of consent). They didn't outright endorse underage drinking, but the age limit was close enough that it wasn't framed as something that would be forbidden for the next several years (they could get away with saying 'if you start to drink in the next couple years' with a wink). The message sunk in a lot better than 'just don't do it ever'. It was kind of like the difference between good sex education vs. Abstinence only. They gave students facts and strategies, focused on actual risks, and got good buy-in.
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  #33  
Old 06 October 2015, 02:13 PM
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My suggestion, which I am entirely aware would not be politically possible:

Nobody should be learning to drink while also being allowed to drive; especially as a new or relatively new driver.

Because of the need (at least in much of the USA) to be able to drive in order to get to work, school, and stores, it's a bad idea to raise the driving age to significantly above the drinking age.

So we need to lower the drinking age to significantly below the driving age: in other words, to, say, 14.

This will have the additional advantages 1) that people learning to drink will be at least theoretically still somewhat under parental supervision (admittedly if the parents can't drink responsibly themselves that doesn't help, but if the parents can't drink responsibly the kids may well have access to their alcohol anyway) and 2), probably more importantly: people not yet adult, especially those in their teens, want to be able to do things the adults do. People recently adult, however, very often don't want to do things they think of as being things younger people do. If the common errors of learning to drink, such as becoming accidentally drunk, are associated with being 14: then 18 year olds won't want to do them. And those 14 year olds who want to be thought of as mature won't want to do them either.

(yes, I know. There are also medical issues of interference with brain development. But plenty of teenagers drink illegally as it is. Letting them do it at home with dinner might reduce the amount rather than increase it.)
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  #34  
Old 06 October 2015, 02:37 PM
Dr. Dave Dr. Dave is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Alarm View Post
I invite you to visit Canada, Dr. Dave!
Thanks, but my time past the legal drinking age is, well, past the legal drinking age.
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  #35  
Old 06 October 2015, 02:45 PM
Ellestar Ellestar is offline
 
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I always thought it was illogical to have age be the thing that determines whether or not people are mature enough to drink.

When I was 18-20, I thought that it should be contingent upon graduating high school. Further, to graduate high school, you need to take and pass a course on alcohol's affects on judgment, driving, etc. and have to watch/read literature against drunk driving. Once you passed and graduated, you can drink.

If you don't graduate high school/pass the class, you wait until you're 21 to drink.

I'm sure there are all kinds of problems with this proposition, but it made a lot of sense to me in the 2 1/2 years between graduating high school and finally being legal to buy alcohol.
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  #36  
Old 06 October 2015, 05:56 PM
UrbanLegends101 UrbanLegends101 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
This will have the additional advantages 1) that people learning to drink will be at least theoretically still somewhat under parental supervision (admittedly if the parents can't drink responsibly themselves that doesn't help, but if the parents can't drink responsibly the kids may well have access to their alcohol anyway)
In a fair number of US states, it is not illegal for parents to allow their children to drink alcohol, even if underage.
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  #37  
Old 06 October 2015, 06:21 PM
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True; but the parents generally can't get their kids served in a restaurant, etc. (which is understandable on the restaurant's part, as they're not set up to be able to prove whether they're actually dealing with a custodial parent of the child in question.) Nor is it generally legal for them to be given even, say, a taste of wine at a friend's or other relative's house if the parent isn't present, even if the parent gave permission. And the family is likely to be told repeatedly by ads and by instructions coming from the school that it's a terrible thing for even the parents directly to let the child have any alcohol, even where it's legal.
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  #38  
Old 06 October 2015, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Alarm View Post
Yes, in college, you don't need Fake ID to get your drinks...
My son is in University and is 17. He is 1.5 years away from being able to legally drink in Ontario. He does have a university ID but it is marked "MINOR" across his photo.
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  #39  
Old 07 October 2015, 07:55 PM
UrbanLegends101 UrbanLegends101 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
True; but the parents generally can't get their kids served in a restaurant, etc. (which is understandable on the restaurant's part, as they're not set up to be able to prove whether they're actually dealing with a custodial parent of the child in question.)
You are correct and I should have included "in the privacy of their own home."

That is generally addressed in the statutes of the state where parents are allowed to serve alcohol to their children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Nor is it generally legal for them to be given even, say, a taste of wine at a friend's or other relative's house if the parent isn't present, even if the parent gave permission.
The setting might be situational. Some states allow for alcohol in a religious setting. I might suggest that in the case of a minor child partaking of the four cups of wine during seder at a home other than the parent's home, in the company of the parents, the state might have a difficult time making a case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
And the family is likely to be told repeatedly by ads and by instructions coming from the school that it's a terrible thing for even the parents directly to let the child have any alcohol, even where it's legal.

Perhaps, but if it is legal in my jurisdiction to serve alcohol to my underage child in the privacy of my home, advertisements and school instructions might take third place. Again, though, in the privacy of my home, I have the opportunity to have quite a bit of control. Our now 18-year old simply doesn't like wine and won't even drink it for seders.
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  #40  
Old 08 October 2015, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Winston O'Boogie View Post
Dates and ages vary by state.
Right. The drinking age here in California has been 21 since Prohobition ended (1933) so I never experienced a time when 18-20 year olds could legally drink.

Brian
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