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  #1  
Old 28 December 2007, 07:56 PM
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Default Muhammad Ali vs Bruce Lee, who would win? And other sporting questions

Ever wondered why cyclists shave their legs? Or if darts players need to drink? Or whether there's a motive behind Sharapova's shriek?

http://sport.independent.co.uk/article3289179.ece
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  #2  
Old 30 December 2007, 07:34 AM
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Sakuraba came from professional (that is to say, staged) wrestling,
Rasslins' fake?
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  #3  
Old 03 January 2008, 03:24 PM
Elkhound Elkhound is offline
 
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I have taken classes from teachers of the Lee lineage, and can say that the techniques that he used in the movies and the ones he taught in his martial arts schools were very different.
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Old 03 January 2008, 03:54 PM
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On the matter of who would win between Ali vs Lee, your really talking apples and oranges. If it were a boxing match set to official rules, Ali would cream Lee. If it were a karate match set to those rules, Lee would literally kick Ali's ass.
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  #5  
Old 03 January 2008, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
On the matter of who would win between Ali vs Lee, your really talking apples and oranges. If it were a boxing match set to official rules, Ali would cream Lee. If it were a karate match set to those rules, Lee would literally kick Ali's ass.
And in a no-holds-barred free-for-all?
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Old 03 January 2008, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MapleLeaf View Post
And in a no-holds-barred free-for-all?
I'd agree with the article that Ali's huge size and strength advantage would mean that he would absolutely destroy Lee. Anecdotally, as big, strong guy with no real wrestling experience (6'1" and about 200 at the time), I dominated smaller guys who'd been succesfully wrestling for years. He might have known more moves and holds, but I was large enough that he couldn't move me easily and strong enough to break his holds by brute force. Can you actually imagine tiny Bruce Lee escaping a hold by Ali?

Now, if there were a great boxer and martial artist of approximately the same size, well that's less certain.
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  #7  
Old 03 January 2008, 04:49 PM
Insensible Crier Insensible Crier is offline
 
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I would think Bruce Lee would have the advantage. A boxer doesn't have the training to properly defend or react to the variety of attacks a martial artist would have. Boxers train to protect and strike above the waist with hands only. That leaves a whole world of stuff he wouldn't know how to deal with.
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  #8  
Old 03 January 2008, 05:24 PM
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Even the fastest kicks are slow compared to punches, because they require more build-up and begin from a greater distance from their target.
That is making a lot of presumptions, who says lee would be kicking the head or even the chest. To slow someone that size you keep dodging in under his fists and take out the knees.
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  #9  
Old 04 January 2008, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by robbiev View Post
Rasslins' fake?
No, Pro Wrestling is "staged."

They overact and pre-plan each contest, but are still running, hitting, kicking and carrying each other (mighty tough to carry a 200 to 350 lbs person... ). That show "some" ability and talent.
I will yield the point of OVER acted. I mean how many times can you get hit with "a steel chair" and be able to walk in reality???

How many 250 lbs men do you know that can do a standing back-flip? (Note, doesn't have to land on his feet, just has to land and NOT hurt himself )

To the OP, Ali in his prime was ~230-240, Bruce Lee was ~160-170. Lee was fast, but that is a LOT of weight to give away to a talented (albeit different styles) fighter.
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  #10  
Old 04 January 2008, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
On the matter of who would win between Ali vs Lee, your really talking apples and oranges. If it were a boxing match set to official rules, Ali would cream Lee. If it were a karate match set to those rules, Lee would literally kick Ali's ass.
Nitpick, Lee didn't practice karate.
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  #11  
Old 04 January 2008, 01:28 AM
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I would think Bruce Lee would have the advantage. A boxer doesn't have the training to properly defend or react to the variety of attacks a martial artist would have. Boxers train to protect and strike above the waist with hands only. That leaves a whole world of stuff he wouldn't know how to deal with.
Quote:
That is making a lot of presumptions, who says lee would be kicking the head or even the chest. To slow someone that size you keep dodging in under his fists and take out the knees.
Apparently you didn't read the whole article - all of these points were covered.

And anecdotally:

I wrestled in High School, weighing in at 125 pounds. After four years, I could usually beat any newb up to 185lbs because I was quicker and more skilled. After that... there is a point where sheer size overcomes skill and speed. At 125 pounds, I simply could not beat a 220 lbs dude unless I got lucky.
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  #12  
Old 04 January 2008, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondi View Post
On the matter of who would win between Ali vs Lee, your really talking apples and oranges. If it were a boxing match set to official rules, Ali would cream Lee. If it were a karate match set to those rules, Lee would literally kick Ali's ass.
If it were a boxing match set to official rules, the fight could not happen due to differing weight classes.

Under a "no holds barred" scenario, everyone always assumes the boxer will stick to boxing techniques. Surely Ali would train for the fight and that training would include ground fighting skills used in BJJ, for instance.

As for who would win if both stuck to their own styles depends on who get in the first big hit.
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  #13  
Old 04 January 2008, 04:55 AM
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I wrestled for one year in high school and was absolutely awful, but even in my awfulness nobody under about 185 pounds had a chance against me. I wrestled at 235, which is heavyweight. The 190 guy regularly beat my rear end because he wrestled for a while. The other heavyweight pounded my ass as well. However, anybody and I mean anybody below me had no chance because all I had to do was figure out what they were trying and do the opposite. On the first day, I picked up a guy who I'd played lineman with in football (he was in the heavies at the time but would have wrestled at 190 for sure) and gave him a bodyslam because I didn't know any better. He quit out of embarrassment later that day.

As for the "first good hit", Lee could probably fare well against a Floyd Mayweather Jr. or a Sugar Ray Leonard, I'm sure (though I'd still give the advantage to the boxer based on the fact that your average boxer has actually engaged in fist-fights where you have to deal with punch-drunkenness, cuts, and hurt hands way more than your average martial artist), but even given the fact that Ali was never known as a particularly hard puncher, there's just a massive difference in firepower between a guy who is 6 feet tall and knows how to throw punches and a guy who is significantly smaller and has a pure martial arts background. If they stayed up, Ali would walk around the ring and jab at him all night (and probably KO him with jabs in 3 or 4 rounds, because one thing Ali was known for was a really strong, quick jab). Lee's only real chance would be to get inside and hope that Ali didn't use that to take him to the ground, because again Ali's size would be too big an advantage.
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  #14  
Old 04 January 2008, 05:45 AM
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Ali would win , Bruce is dead. Even I could kick a dead mans ass.
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  #15  
Old 04 January 2008, 06:43 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Well, Ali actually faced Antonio Inoki in a wrestling match, which ended a draw. It's one of those matches wrestling fans loves to mention that it has happened, but the match itself is never discussed, because it's probably the most boring 15 minutes ever seen in a wrestling ring.

Personally, I think both participants had too much prestige to lose, so neither would concede to a loss, and the match had to be scripted as a draw.
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  #16  
Old 04 January 2008, 12:25 PM
Insensible Crier Insensible Crier is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf333 View Post
Apparently you didn't read the whole article - all of these points were covered.
I did read the whole article and no it doesn't address all points. It mainly addresses kicks vs punches. It mentions that kicks are slower than punches. True but they completely ignore the fact that kicks have more reach than punches. Also they ignore that Ali has only trained to defend from attacks above his waist. Would he know how to react to a simple leg sweep? Kick to the knee or groin? Any type of takedown? If he gets knocked down, can he still defend himself? Boxers don't train or experience these scenarios while most martial artists do. So Ali in a sense has a blind spot.

Also note that I said Lee would have an advantage. I never said he would win.
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  #17  
Old 04 January 2008, 01:51 PM
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Also, Bruce Lee's martial art included weapons. Pretty hard to punch someone who's trained to use a bo staff or kali sticks.

A kick to the thigh hurts. A lot. A kick to the knee can easily incapacitate the biggest opponent. These can be done from well outside punching range.

The question should be: Bruce Lee vs Anderson Silva, who would win? (assuming both fighters were in their prime)

Also, can darts seriously be considered a sport?
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  #18  
Old 04 January 2008, 07:43 PM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Quote:
The question should be: Bruce Lee vs Anderson Silva, who would win?
Nah, Ali vs Kasparov, that would be interesting. I guess the outcome would depend somewhat if they competed in martial arts or chess, though.
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  #19  
Old 04 January 2008, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by damian View Post
Also, can darts seriously be considered a sport?
No less so than International Olympic Committee recognized bridge.
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  #20  
Old 04 January 2008, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Troberg View Post
Nah, Ali vs Kasparov, that would be interesting. I guess the outcome would depend somewhat if they competed in martial arts or chess, though.
I have a feeling that Kasparov would take longer to beat Ali at chess than Ali would take to beat Kasparov at boxing

And Ali has nothing to lose. It's a lot worse to lose at boxing than chess.
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