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  #361  
Old 16 May 2017, 02:08 AM
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Yes, but it would cost more to travel.
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  #362  
Old 16 May 2017, 04:08 AM
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I know that. I just want to understand how others draw the lines.
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  #363  
Old 18 October 2017, 02:08 PM
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Two aviation officers have been fired, and two others suspended , over the forced removal of a United Airlines passenger from his flight.

http://time.com/4987015/united-airli...removal-fired/
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  #364  
Old 18 October 2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Dao lost two teeth and broke his nose as a result
I’m nit picking, but that phrasing annoys me. He shouldn’t be the agent in that sentence. He didn’t lose his teeth or break his nose. They knocked out his teeth and broke his nose.
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  #365  
Old 18 October 2017, 06:09 PM
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I'd guess the writer was trying to avoid phrasing that would implicate that the officers deliberately broke his nose and knocked out his teeth.

"The officers broke Dao's nose and knocked out two of his teeth during the scuffle." could suggest deliberate actions that are not legally proven.

I don't know exactly what the finding were, but it sounds like the disciplinary actions were due to the officers lying on their reports and interfering with the investigation. Without a finding on exactly how Dao came to be injured, the writer would probably want to avoid anything suggesting criminal or civil responsibility. Even the standby of "allegedly" might not be appropriate if no legal party is alleging that a crime has been committed.

So, even "The officers accidentally broke Dao's nose and knocked out two of his teeth during the scuffle." could be problematic.

They also may have been trying to avoid using passive voice because passive voice is supposed to be avoided. IMO, this is one time were passive voice would probably be the best choice though.

"Two of Dao's teeth were knocked out and his nose was broken during the altercation."
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  #366  
Old 18 October 2017, 11:43 PM
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As annoying as it may be, I don't think it would be right for a journalist to say they broke his nose etc in this case - even if it's almost certain their actions were responsible. If someone had alleged it then the writer could say that. The conventional way of avoiding the passive tense in this case would be to say he "suffered a broken nose and...".
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  #367  
Old 19 October 2017, 05:48 AM
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Good points, both of you, and you both came up with better options.

Thanks, I’m less annoyed now.
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  #368  
Old 20 October 2017, 12:17 AM
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This is why it should not be said that passive voice is to be avoided. Good writers typically know that passive voice is useful and entirely appropriate for certain purposes, just like active voice is. Passive voice is often demonized as a way of "obscuring" or hiding who the responsible party is. But there are times when you don't know who the active party is, or it is not clear who is responsible, or it is not important who the active party was. Being able to use passive voice when it is appropriate is like having a good vocabulary. It allows a writer to choose how to best formulate the meaning that they want to convey.
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  #369  
Old 20 October 2017, 01:27 AM
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That’s why it was invented. It’s a tool for communication.
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  #370  
Old 20 October 2017, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Thomas Demetrio, Dao's attorney, said that the case is "a lesson to be learnt" for law enforcement, reports CNN.

"Do not state something that is clearly contrary to video viewed by the world," he said.
Wrong lesson.

Don't do awful things and lie about them.
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  #371  
Old 20 October 2017, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avril View Post
Wrong lesson.

Don't do awful things and lie about them.
I have read a few articles. There seems to be a split on why they were fired/penalised.

It seems that at least one was fired for changing his report or omitting key information from his report. Not for the treatment of Dr Dao.

If that is the case, and there were no punishments for the treatment of Dao, then the lesson learned above would prove correct.

However, some reporting seems to focus on people getting fired for the treatment, in that case, the lesson is not correct.
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