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Old 11 May 2017, 03:01 PM
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Default Race, Remembrance and Tourism in New Orleans

This is a blog post I have commented on about the removal of Confederate statues in New Orleans, as a non-American I have no real say in the issue, but will say that I believe that simply changing the plaques on the statue to provide an accurate account of the person would have been simpler and more educational than simply removing them. However the most interesting part of the blog post is something that has gotten lost in the controversy.

Quote:
It seems likely there will be no statues to even local notables of the war. Some possible replacements could include Oscar J. Dunn, Andre Cailloux, or Algernon Sidney Badger. Dunn was the first black lieutenant governor in America. He helped create one of the most equitable state constitutions of its time. Cailloux was an officer who died leading a charge at Port Hudson, the first battle where black regiments fought in the war. Badger was a white army officer noted for his courage and devotion to civil rights. He was wounded while fighting the White League. Replacements have been discussed only in passing. Meanwhile, unless forced to, the Omni Royal Hotel does not want to advertise that their building was the country’s largest slave market before the war. We take down the statues but we also refuse to discuss slavery. We make history more palatable. After all, the reason people come to New Orleans is music, food, and architecture. New Orleans is not Gettysburg, nor is it the National Holocaust Museum.
This 'sanitization' of the past is disturbing, that old saying about those who forget the past, is a cliche because often it does come true. The full blog post can be read below:

https://emergingcivilwar.com/2017/05...n-new-orleans/
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Old 11 May 2017, 03:47 PM
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Sometimes tearing down a monument to racists erected by racists and still supported by racists is preferable, just like tearing down monuments erected to fascists still supported by fascists or tearing down monuments to authoritarian dictators, etc. No amount of "explanation" will do. Put it in some corner of a museum with an explanation; Fine.

It's not "sanitization" to take down the nazi flags when the allies are finished finishing them off either. Still want to see them? Fine. That's what the cinema is for. That's what museums are for. That's what books and Wikis are for. They don't need to be in the street. Not santization. Just cleaning up old racist s__t.
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Old 11 May 2017, 03:52 PM
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I don't believe there's any danger of Americans forgetting the Civil War. There is a danger of people spreading ridiculous lies about it and its symbols.
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Old 11 May 2017, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I don't believe there's any danger of Americans forgetting the Civil War. There is a danger of people spreading ridiculous lies about it and its symbols.
I do agree, but then there is this from a book on lost/destroyed artwork when discussing the theft of African artifacts and the suppression of Africa's medieval history in the 19th Century. The author is writing on comments by Malcolm X, following a comment about how Malcolm X had conflated Sub-Saharan Africa with the North African Muslims who took part in the slave trade, he adds this:

Quote:
"But Malcolm X had joined the Nation of Islam, and was doctrinally inclined to treat Africa as a single entity. The followers of this movement were curiously unengaged with the loathsome practices of Arab slave traders."
Rick Gekoski, Lost, Stolen or Shredded, 2013, pg 225-226

Following this he then goes on to point out that his view on Africa was affected more by the passion of what Malcolm X and others wrote about the smug talk of 'savages' that justified much of what went on in the 19th C and it led him to look into just what had been suppressed.

And it will be noted that this suppression has had consequences, as the biography of Hunter Adams author of the "African and African-American Contributions to Science and Technology" portion of the 'African-American Baseline Essays' shows:

Quote:
According to Adams, the ancient Egyptians were black and their culture ancestral to African-Americans. They also flew around in gliders and were the inventors of most of modern science, in particular the use of the zodiac and “astropsychological treatises,” which Adams implies is science. Furthermore, the ancient Egyptians were “famous as masters of psi, precognition, psychokinesis, remote viewing and other undeveloped human capabilities.”
http://americanloons.blogspot.com.au...ter-adams.html
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Old 11 May 2017, 06:23 PM
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I'm sorry, I don't see how that relates to the removal of Confederate statues.
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Old 11 May 2017, 08:07 PM
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The "but the arabs..." strawman does not in any way diminish the race issues that are present in America today.

You cannot point to another race, in another region, in another time, who did something for other reasons and claim "they did it, so it's ok for us to do it too".

Also
Quote:
the ancient Egyptians were “famous as masters of psi, precognition, psychokinesis, remote viewing and other undeveloped human capabilities.”
Do you really accept something that talk about psychic power as being a true, believable account that can be presented to uphold a point of view?

If so, I'd like to point to "God made man in his image" to support the point of view that all men are equal, no matter the colour of their skin.
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Old 11 May 2017, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarm View Post
The "but the arabs..." strawman does not in any way diminish the race issues that are present in America today.

You cannot point to another race, in another region, in another time, who did something for other reasons and claim "they did it, so it's ok for us to do it too".
Neither I nor the author were using it as a strawman argument. It was just something he noted (And which disturbed him.) in a book whose contents inspired him to investigate the history of Africa beyond that being covered by the Eurocentric books he had read in school.

As for the psychic powers stuff, the cast of the Archaeological Fantasies podcast who in their episode (16) on Afrocentrism (The extreme stuff, like that espoused by Hunter Adams and his ilk.) pointed out that it obscures the real achievements of the African peoples.

The episode is linked below.

https://www.archaeologypodcastnetwor...hyfantasies/16
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Old 11 May 2017, 08:51 PM
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I still don't understand what point that anecdote was supposed to be making.

ETA: Taking down sculptures of Confederate "heroes" != suppressing history.
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Old 11 May 2017, 09:47 PM
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Roll eyes

I seriously doubt someone's spitty old white hood is a work of art. But it's possible. Again, that's why we have museums. That's why we have books. That's why we have the Internet. That's why we have dusty old attics filled with crap. Leave it in there for all I care. It's no excuse to wear it in the street.
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Old 12 May 2017, 02:20 AM
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George Santayanna's quote about how those who fail to learn from the past, are doomed to repeat it, really needs a corollary: yet those who do learn from the past, are doomed to watch helplessly as everyone else repeats it.

I know only tangentially related, but his quote had come up a few times in this thread.
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