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  #1  
Old 12 March 2014, 09:58 PM
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Icon104 New mystery in Pontiac: How could mummified body vote in 2010?

Sometime before she is believed to have died, Pia Farrenkopf asked her mail carrier in Pontiac not to drop mail off at the home, saying she often traveled for work and did most of her correspondence online. With no mail stacking up at Farrenkopf’s home on Savanna Drive where she lived alone, a neighbor mowing the lawn, bills automatically being paid from a bank account and neighbors thinking she moved or was traveling, there was nothing to raise suspicions that the garage of the ranch house for years held a secret — mummified remains, believed to be Farrenkopf. And Monday, a new mystery emerged about the woman thought to have died in 2008. Voting records in Oakland County show Farrenkopf, who has not been positively identified by the Medical Examiner’s Office, is shown as voting in the November 2010 gubernatorial election.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014031...-found-Pontiac
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  #2  
Old 13 March 2014, 09:29 PM
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And I thought it was only Chicago where being dead didn't mean you couldn't vote!
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  #3  
Old 13 March 2014, 10:27 PM
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Two possibilities come to mind:

One, maybe that isn't Farrenkopf's body in the house. Farrenkopf might have disappeared for some other reason, possibly a reason having to do with the fact that there's a body in her house.

Two: the clerk might be right; her vote might have been written down under the wrong year (I'm presuming that's the kind of "administrative error" that the article refers to.)
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Old 13 March 2014, 10:49 PM
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Or she died later than they think. The 2008 date isn't based on medical evidence; it's based on when the plates expired on the car in which she was found.
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Old 16 March 2014, 05:55 AM
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Or else "the dead have risen and they're voting replican" or democrate if that is the case.
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  #6  
Old 16 March 2014, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasla View Post
Or else "the dead have risen and they're voting replican" or democrate if that is the case.
But this would make a well ok plot line for a movie, following thorny locust first theory.
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  #7  
Old 16 March 2014, 11:51 AM
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Boring, I know, but clerical error is the most likely explanation.
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  #8  
Old 16 March 2014, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderwoman View Post
Boring, I know, but clerical error is the most likely explanation.
Do you have any cites to support this? What do you base this conclusion on?
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  #9  
Old 16 March 2014, 02:28 PM
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Occam's Razor.
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  #10  
Old 16 March 2014, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderwoman View Post
Occam's Razor.
That is just hand-waving in this case. The most direct explanation for a vote being registered as having been cast in the name of a particular voter is that a vote was cast in the name of a particular voter.
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  #11  
Old 16 March 2014, 02:49 PM
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Okay, fraud it is, then. Apparently there was a huge conspiracy, to elect Rick Snyder by such a massive margin. How many other dead people do you think they had voting to give Snyder his victory?


ETA:
http://www.brennancenter.org/analysi...ut-voter-fraud
http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/
http://ivn.us/2012/08/31/clerical-er...f-voter-fraud/

Last edited by wanderwoman; 16 March 2014 at 03:14 PM.
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  #12  
Old 16 March 2014, 03:08 PM
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I'm going with she wasn't dead in 2008, that she died after November 2010. After all, the whole thing is nobody'd seen her for years, so it seems that there's a lot of doubt for when she died.

I'd find it hard to believe there's fraud involved in the cast of a voter whom nobody had reason to believe was dead. That'd be a big risk for whomever cast a vote in her name.

Magdalene
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  #13  
Old 16 March 2014, 03:13 PM
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Roll eyes

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderwoman View Post
Okay, fraud it is, then. Apparently there was a huge conspiracy, to elect Rick Snyder by such a massive margin. How many other dead people do you think they had voting to give Snyder his victory?
Was that the only race on the ballot involved? Otherwise you are now lurching from one upsupportable assumption to another.

Besides, you are still avoiding the unsupported assumption that clerical error was the most likely explanation. Or maybe you are not - by ridiculing the notion that this could have been voter fraud by pointing out that a Republican won the most prominent race on the ballot, from an outside perspective.
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  #14  
Old 16 March 2014, 03:15 PM
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http://www.brennancenter.org/analysi...ut-voter-fraud
http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/
http://ivn.us/2012/08/31/clerical-er...f-voter-fraud/
http://ic.galegroup.com/ic/ovic/View...f0c638251cdd18

Edited my last post, but you had already replied so here are the cites.
I didn't say it couldn't be voter fraud, by the way. I said it was not the most likely explanation.

Last edited by wanderwoman; 16 March 2014 at 03:30 PM.
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  #15  
Old 16 March 2014, 04:33 PM
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She didn't vote in the state election, it was the national election.

Rick Snyder done because Virge Bernero is a flaming asshat. I can't even count the number of long time democrats I know who voted for Rick because they couldn't stand Virge.

*ETA, my bad, she didn't vote in the national election.

Its doubtful she voted at all since the only evidence is that her name was highlighted on a form. I find it hard to believe someone knew she was dead and pretended to be her just to cast a single vote.

Last edited by Beachlife!; 16 March 2014 at 04:46 PM.
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  #16  
Old 16 March 2014, 08:12 PM
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So far we have four possible explanations that have been posited in this thread (leaving out the zombies): that the body isn't Farrenkopf's; that the body is Farrenkopf's but she died after the election; that her name's marked on the 2010 rolls due to clerical error and either a different year or a different name was meant to be marked instead; and that this was voter fraud.

ATNM, if you think voter fraud is the most likely of these explanations, why do you think so?

As she wasn't known to be dead*, casting a false vote in her name would, as Magdalene pointed out, have been quite risky. If other fraudulent votes were being cast, having a live Farrenkopf show up to cast her own vote later would risk exposing the whole scheme. If only this one was, the chances that it would swing even a close election would have been so extraordinarily slim that I really can't see anybody bothering. So I think any of the other explanations is more likely.

The question of whether the body is Farrenkopf's will presumably eventually be settled by more thorough examination of the remains; maybe it has been already. Whether the date of death can be so settled I don't know; but even if the only other possibility that's left is that a clerk marked the wrong name or the wrong year, I still think that's more likely than fraud, for a combination of the reasons given above with the fact that if a very large number of names on a list are being marked in the course of a long day I think it's far more likely that one is occasionally marked wrong than that none ever is.

*I suppose you could posit that someone had discovered the body before the election, had not reported it, but had concluded that it was Farrenkopf's; or had caused the body to be a body before the election and perhaps knew that it was Farrenkopf's; and that this person had then seen an opportunity to cast a fraudulent vote. But unless you're positing that someone is going around murdering people specifically in order to cast their votes, I really do think that's pushing Occam way too far.
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  #17  
Old 16 March 2014, 08:19 PM
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My best guess was that either she voted and they got the date of her death wrong or a worker in the polling place made a mistake.

I do wonder exactly what she was doing and what caused her death though.
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  #18  
Old 18 March 2014, 01:43 AM
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See, here's why I didn't feel like going back and digging up those cites. All that flack about a simple statement, and when I go to the trouble to come up with perfectly good cites, crickets. Why do I waste my time?

The information I posted is available to anyone who is interested in what the research says, and the research says that in-person voter fraud is almost nil, and is certainly not a danger to our electoral system. Why ask for cites if you don't care what the research says?
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  #19  
Old 18 March 2014, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderwoman View Post
See, here's why I didn't feel like going back and digging up those cites. All that flack about a simple statement, and when I go to the trouble to come up with perfectly good cites, crickets. Why do I waste my time?
Well, I now have several links conveniently saved where I can get at them if I need them in some future discussion of the topic.

Also, we don't know how many people are reading these threads who don't comment on them, but who may nevertheless be paying attention, and trying to make up their minds on an issue.
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  #20  
Old 18 March 2014, 03:14 PM
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ATNM won't even click them because they do not fit into the fact-free decision he's already made about the issue. I perused them briefly but they simply confirm the facts I already had so there was no need to comment. I was trying to stay out of the thread because there's no way I can be nice since I knew where ATNM was going with it from the start.

Just because peopled don't comment doesn't mean they don't read, and don't appreciate.
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