snopes.com  

Go Back   snopes.com > SLC Central > Rantidote

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29 January 2016, 12:07 PM
rockland6674's Avatar
rockland6674 rockland6674 is offline
 
Join Date: 28 December 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,111
Bang Head Challenger disaster tinfoil hatters

It's been 30 years since the space shuttle Challenger disaster. I remember it, and the circumstances under which I learned of it, so vividly. Of course, the people who use the cheap wrap are screaming "Fake!", "Hoax!", "Government conspiracy!" and the ever-popular "False flag!".

Yep, and 9/11 was an inside job, the moon landing was shot on a set, the Boston Marathon bombing and the Sandy Hook shootings were staged by crisis actors, and (Fill in the blank) killed JFK.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29 January 2016, 01:54 PM
DawnStorm's Avatar
DawnStorm DawnStorm is offline
 
Join Date: 11 March 2003
Location: Montgomery County, MD
Posts: 17,008
Icon19

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockland6674 View Post
and (Fill in the blank) killed JFK.

The Mafia in conjunction with the CIA.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29 January 2016, 02:05 PM
Sue's Avatar
Sue Sue is offline
 
Join Date: 26 December 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,210
Default

What I will never understand about these people who feel the government has the power to do all this - why are they allowed to preach their "false flag" crap so freely? If the government is so powerful that they can involve hundreds, if not ultimately thousands, of people in their conspiracies why have they never sent a sniper to take out even one of the conspiracy theorists who are trying to blow the whistle on them? Or when someone eventually dies of cancer or in a road accident are the others using that as "proof" that the government got them?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29 January 2016, 02:13 PM
GenYus234's Avatar
GenYus234 GenYus234 is offline
 
Join Date: 02 August 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 26,687
Default

It is probably the same "logic" that makes sovereign citizens think that the government created this elaborate, secret, Machiavellian system that makes everyone a slave to their corporate person, but left a path where the citizen can free themself with the right combination of petitions.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29 January 2016, 08:02 PM
jimmy101_again jimmy101_again is offline
 
Join Date: 29 December 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 6,912
Default

The people that think that the gov't could pull off complex conspiracies like the Challenger (or 9/11, or the Kennedy assassination, or ...) are usually the same people that complain that the gov't is incredibly ineffectual at doing virtually everything else.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29 January 2016, 08:18 PM
ASL's Avatar
ASL ASL is offline
 
Join Date: 04 July 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 5,972
Default

...what are some of the purported motivations for the conspirators? I had honestly never heard of a Challenger conspiracy theory until now. I see there's a snopes page already covering the subject, but neither that nor a cursory review of the linked conspiracy page indicate why the government would even do this.

Maybe I should consider that refreshing... The idea that if the government could possibly have had any motive to do something means it MUST have done it is one of the more irritating notions of the typical conspiracy theory, as if motive alone (any motive, even the most impractical of motives) is sufficient to prove the offense.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29 January 2016, 08:23 PM
Tootsie Plunkette's Avatar
Tootsie Plunkette Tootsie Plunkette is offline
 
Join Date: 26 October 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,137
Icon402

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
What I will never understand about these people who feel the government has the power to do all this - why are they allowed to preach their "false flag" crap so freely?
Well, there are rumors about that sort of thing, too: Five Holistic Doctors Dead
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 30 January 2016, 02:38 AM
Mouse's Avatar
Mouse Mouse is offline
 
Join Date: 10 July 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,589
Mouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy101_again View Post
The people that think that the gov't could pull off complex conspiracies like the Challenger (or 9/11, or the Kennedy assassination, or ...) are usually the same people that complain that the gov't is incredibly ineffectual at doing virtually everything else.
That's what I'm like! Whenever I hear the 9/11 Truthers babble, I'm like, "You mean to tell me that the Bush II administration is so scarily competent as to be able to murder nearly 3000 people with the whole world watching, yet is so incompetent that they can't be bothered to, I don't know, cut the brake lines of the idiots who put together the Loose Change video?" Again, the fact that they had nearly a week's notice on Hurricane Katrina and still didn't do anything, should prove once and for all just how incompetent the Bush II administration is.

I have the same question towards Moon Landing Denialists. Supposedly they claim that the reason Apollo 1 shuttle blew up is because Gus Grissom was going to blow the whistle on everything, but you'd think an organization with billions of dollars in its budgets, could come up with a less sensational method of bumping off a whistleblower, one that wouldn't attract as much press attention as a freaking explosion!

I keep wondering when the False Flag meme entered the Conspiracy Field. Because there was a masochistic, morbid pleasure to be had in the old days, watching them link everyone in Washington D.C. to Kennedy's death, but now, everyone just says, "False Flag!" and moves on, which disappoints me.

It's just flat-out lazy. I'm a firm believer in "Anything worth doing is worth doing well." At least David Icke has the common courtesy to create a detailed, entertaining, incredibly convoluted mythos! He is crazier than...okay, I don't know how to finish that analogy. But my point is, he puts forth some effort!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30 January 2016, 02:42 AM
crocoduck_hunter's Avatar
crocoduck_hunter crocoduck_hunter is offline
 
Join Date: 27 May 2009
Location: Roseburg, OR
Posts: 13,135
Default

I liked how Carl Sagan put it: the same government that could somehow fake a moon landing couldn't keep a simple hotel burglary quiet?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30 January 2016, 02:55 AM
Mouse's Avatar
Mouse Mouse is offline
 
Join Date: 10 July 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,589
Mouse

With you, Crocoduck. Given that the scandal that brought down the Nixon Presidency started because a night watchman noticed some scotch tape on the door and called the police and things spiraled from there, you really have to question the might of our Evil Lizard Trilateral Government.

I'm just saying, Woodward and Bernstein are both still walking the streets, suffering from no adverse effects except those that come with being old men in their seventies.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 30 January 2016, 03:05 AM
BrianB's Avatar
BrianB BrianB is offline
 
Join Date: 03 March 2000
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 3,565
Icon27 Long personal rant....

Answering your second question first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
I had honestly never heard of a Challenger conspiracy theory until now.
I heard my first Challenger conspiracy theory one day after the accident. The woman who told me it said before the launch astronauts went into the external tank (its real purpose was some sort of lifeboat), which then splashed down in the Atlantic. She said the Navy then secretly picked up the crew and either hid them or killed them. (She wasn't sure.) She told me it must be true since she claimed space travel was impossible.

Quote:
...what are some of the purported motivations for the conspirators?
The purported reasons obviously varies among conspiracy theorists, of course. However, I have known conspiracy theorists since I was little and have noticed a pattern for why the government and/or powerful figures would fake the space program, for example, which comes down to it being a tool for an even larger conspiracy. For example, singer/rapper B.o.B believes NASA is part of a Freemason plot to hide the fact the Earth is really flat. Interestingly, I clicked rockland6674's link and, wouldn't you know it, there's a link to a video claiming the Freemasons were responsible for faking the Challenger accident.

On a personal note, when I was 11 (1969) I made the mistake of sharing my enthusiasm for the Apollo program with a crazy neighbor. He then went on a crazy and angry rant about how it was all fake and how it was part of a Jewish plot to destroy the white race. (Don't ask me how.) As I later learned any bad thing, not matter how big or small, was the fault of the Jews according to him.

Anyway, I hope that's helpful. I'm both fascinated and repelled by conspiracy theorists. I think it's a goldmine for social and psychological theorists and I would love to see more studies on the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
I liked how Carl Sagan put it: the same government that could somehow fake a moon landing couldn't keep a simple hotel burglary quiet?
I love that argument too. Unfortunately, it does not sway conspiracy theorists at all.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 30 January 2016, 03:25 AM
crocoduck_hunter's Avatar
crocoduck_hunter crocoduck_hunter is offline
 
Join Date: 27 May 2009
Location: Roseburg, OR
Posts: 13,135
Default

Funny, I'm on another message forum where there's currently someone claiming that the Earth is really flat. She can't quite figure out why nobody else is taking her arguments seriously when "common sense says that a bowling ball will fall faster in a vacuum than a feather" happens to be the most complex argument she can come up with.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 30 January 2016, 03:46 AM
Mouse's Avatar
Mouse Mouse is offline
 
Join Date: 10 July 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,589
Mouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
I'm both fascinated and repelled by conspiracy theorists. I think it's a goldmine for social and psychological theorists and I would love to see more studies on the subject.
Me too. That's why the current crop of conspiracy nuts disappoints the Hell out of me. They just label everything a false flag operation and move on. Part of the masochistic fun was in how their forebears would concoct the most elaborate labyrinthine mythos possible.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 30 January 2016, 04:09 AM
ASL's Avatar
ASL ASL is offline
 
Join Date: 04 July 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 5,972
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
I have the same question towards Moon Landing Denialists. Supposedly they claim that the reason Apollo 1 shuttle blew up is because Gus Grissom was going to blow the whistle on everything, but you'd think an organization with billions of dollars in its budgets, could come up with a less sensational method of bumping off a whistleblower, one that wouldn't attract as much press attention as a freaking explosion!
NASA typically preferred to silence troublesome astronaughts through plane crashes, but unfortunately the reached their quota for the mid-60s the year prior and had to cook something else up. By settling on a launch pad fire, they were able to reset the plane crash counter and use the method agin to silence one more astronaught in 1967. They probably figured he was going to squeal about the Apollo 1 "mishap."
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 31 January 2016, 07:37 PM
musicgeek's Avatar
musicgeek musicgeek is offline
 
Join Date: 01 August 2005
Location: Fairfield, CT
Posts: 5,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
Funny, I'm on another message forum where there's currently someone claiming that the Earth is really flat. She can't quite figure out why nobody else is taking her arguments seriously when "common sense says that a bowling ball will fall faster in a vacuum than a feather" happens to be the most complex argument she can come up with.
Someone should direct her toward the Boston Museum of Science, which has a great demonstration countering her "common sense."
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 31 January 2016, 11:51 PM
Mouse's Avatar
Mouse Mouse is offline
 
Join Date: 10 July 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,589
Mouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
NASA typically preferred to silence troublesome astronaughts through plane crashes, but unfortunately the reached their quota for the mid-60s the year prior and had to cook something else up. By settling on a launch pad fire, they were able to reset the plane crash counter and use the method agin to silence one more astronaught in 1967. They probably figured he was going to squeal about the Apollo 1 "mishap."
Do they also have a quota on "Giving a nutbar a gun and sending them to an address? Or cutting someone's brake lines or something? Or any number of ways that are less sensational and attention-getting than an explosion?

But I doubt the conspiracy theorists would answer said questions. Though given the amount of work that would be involved in a Moon Landing Hoax, it would be easier to just actually go to the moon than expect so many people to keep quiet.

And by so many people, I'm not just referring to astronaughts. Obviously if these are all sets and props and such, you still had to have a whole lot of people involved in order to craft said sets and props. Has any of the nuts been involved with theatre or TV or movies or any form of acting whatsoever?

Anyone who has been in theatre will tell you that staging a play requires more than just a cast and a director; whole stables of people are needed to make costumes, scenery, and props. And you mean to tell me that none of these craftsmen in making props for a fake moon landing, in over forty years since Apollo 11, never had a crisis of conscience and decided to come clean or ran into financial trouble and was like, "Y'know I have a really dynamite story that I could sell to a tabloid and make a whole pile of cash off of."

Okay I suppose if I brought it up, they'd say, "Durr...NASA killed them all." But do you really expect me to believe that any organization can plug that many potential leaks?

That and if they bumped off Grissom because he was about to blow the whistle, why can't they do anything about idiots on the Internet doing the same thing? Or in other words, the same question regarding the Loose Change idiots: if the government can orchestrate a crime that massive, how come they can't be arsed to cut some nobody's brake lines or something?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01 February 2016, 03:39 PM
FullMetal FullMetal is offline
 
Join Date: 19 December 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 1,376
Default

I love conspiracy theories and their propagators and the gaping holes in their theories. it's a minor hobby of mine to read what I can. the amount of cover-up they'd need to to do make them happen is comical to me. but the comment that they were put in a "lifeboat" when the challenger exploded so that they could be hidden or killed later... if they wanted those 7 astronauts dead... and they strapped them into a shuttle that would blow up at a high altitude (essentially guaranteeing they wouldn't survive)... what more do they need to do? why go through any other work? also what does blowing up a space shuttle "prove"? Was it the teacher was going to reveal some secret? that's easy enough without having to blow up a billion dollar launch vehicle...

Also the faking of the moon landings. That actually has more purpose, but yeah, set builders, directors, scientists, mission command, engineers, janitors, maintenance people, all involved in the conspiracy? It's easy to tell an office isn't used, why aren't the janitors coming out and saying hey, these offices were never used, it's like they were just for show...

Speaking on the BoB rants... in one of his tweets he claimed his airplane flight was the same altitude as Felix Baumgartner's jump and that he saw his balloon out the window (maybe on it's way up) (and no curve!). But on what planet does a commercial airplane fly at 128,100 feet? They usually fly around 30,000-40,000 feet. I think he googled and saw the 39,000 Meters and doesn't understand converting meters to feet.

ETA - UNLESS, the height of his jump wasn't all that impressive and there's a conspiracy about that as well, and that he only jumped from 30,000 feet and not 128,100 feet...

Last edited by FullMetal; 01 February 2016 at 03:42 PM. Reason: added a conspirational thought
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01 February 2016, 04:15 PM
Psihala's Avatar
Psihala Psihala is offline
 
Join Date: 28 February 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullMetal

Also the faking of the moon landings. That actually has more purpose, but yeah, set builders, directors, scientists, mission command, engineers, janitors, maintenance people, all involved in the conspiracy? It's easy to tell an office isn't used, why aren't the janitors coming out and saying hey, these offices were never used, it's like they were just for show...
Not to mention the one country that would have a vested interest in proving the US moon landings were fake is strangely silent about such a claim.

~Psihala
(*Because we all know how willing a participant the Soviet Union was in helping out the US at the time...)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01 February 2016, 04:27 PM
Lancastrian's Avatar
Lancastrian Lancastrian is offline
 
Join Date: 17 March 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullMetal View Post
Speaking on the BoB rants... in one of his tweets he claimed his airplane flight was the same altitude as Felix Baumgartner's jump and that he saw his balloon out the window (maybe on it's way up) (and no curve!). But on what planet does a commercial airplane fly at 128,100 feet? They usually fly around 30,000-40,000 feet. I think he googled and saw the 39,000 Meters and doesn't understand converting meters to feet.

ETA - UNLESS, the height of his jump wasn't all that impressive and there's a conspiracy about that as well, and that he only jumped from 30,000 feet and not 128,100 feet...
Considering that in the downtown Atlanta/Buckhead Atlanta photo BoB uses to "prove" the earth is flat he shows to cities that are 7.5 miles apart but labels them as 16 miles apart, I'm definitely assuming math problems here at the very least.

What kills me is that this is a guy with the means to go to a port city with a lot of ships to see the earth curve for himself. Watch those ships disappear and reappear gradually instead of winking out of existence! I know flat earthers have their own convoluted reasoning for why that happens, but come on. Do at least as much homework as the Ancient Greeks did on this.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01 February 2016, 05:24 PM
UEL's Avatar
UEL UEL is offline
 
Join Date: 01 August 2004
Location: Fredericton, Canada
Posts: 9,381
Baseball

Or put him on a boat and sail for the Azores. Then get him to explain why you can see the top of the mountains from far away, but not the base, until you are close in.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When tinfoil hats aren't enough snopes We've Got Mail 547 26 February 2018 11:34 AM
Never Before Seen Photos of the Challenger Disaster firefighter_raven Social Studies 16 03 February 2014 06:29 AM
7 myths about the Challenger shuttle disaster snopes Science 34 06 February 2011 09:30 AM
When tinfoil hats aren't enough snopes We've Got Mail 999 09 December 2010 05:30 PM
Tinfoil Hats as a UL me, no really Spook Central 25 12 March 2007 12:49 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.