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  #21  
Old 13 June 2013, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post

I understand having compassion for the mom, but telling a victim she can't share evidence of harassment isn't right, either.
Exactly. I can't imagine being a parent and finding out something like this about one of my kids. It would be horrible. But does that mean a victim shouldn't be allowed to do whatever it takes to hold her abuser (stalker, creep, whatever) accountable for his actions? Ultimately the only one who is hurting mom is the creep through choices he made himself.
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  #22  
Old 13 June 2013, 05:58 PM
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But does that mean a victim shouldn't be allowed to do whatever it takes to hold her abuser (stalker, creep, whatever) accountable for his actions?
Yes. She shouldn't be allowed (whether morally or legally) to do whatever it takes. For example, she can't steal his cell phone and smash it. She can't plant child porn on his work computer.

Last edited by GenYus234; 13 June 2013 at 06:01 PM. Reason: added text to expand original answer
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  #23  
Old 13 June 2013, 06:16 PM
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"Whatever it takes" to hold someone accountable isn't the same thing as "whatever it takes" to exact revenge. The lines are blurry here but maybe they wouldn't be if there was a clear cut way to deal with digital sexual harassment outside of silence or public shaming. I doubt anyone here likes either of those options.

ETA--If she shouldn't be allowed to do it, her harasser certainly shouldn't be either. That's kind of the point.

Last edited by Little Pink Pill; 13 June 2013 at 06:30 PM.
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  #24  
Old 13 June 2013, 06:20 PM
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I'm waiting for the part of the story (even if it turns out to be a UL) where the Mom reports it to the police and they wind up arresting the woman for sending her the pic....

No, I can't say I blame the woman, particularly. I don't know if it's the "right" response....but I'm sure not prepared to say it's wrong.
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  #25  
Old 13 June 2013, 06:30 PM
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Unless you have a defined authority over someone (parent, employer, etc) you don't get to hold someone accountable for their actions. And even if you did have such authority, you don't get to do "whatever" it takes.
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  #26  
Old 13 June 2013, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Unless you have a defined authority over someone (parent, employer, etc) you don't get to hold someone accountable for their actions.
I see your point, but what authority should this victim have appealed to, then? Should she have sent it to the man's employer?
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  #27  
Old 13 June 2013, 06:39 PM
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The police?
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  #28  
Old 13 June 2013, 06:41 PM
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Definitely not to his employer, that's just a different version of the same thing (unless of course they work together).

Depending on the rules of the dating site, she should have reported him to that. She also could report him to the police (sometimes a single communication can be considered stalking). She can still post about him on her blog certainly. And of course she can block him.

ETA: Regarding your ETA from above: I agree that her harasser shouldn't be allowed to do it. But as the cliché goes, "two wrongs don't make a right". He was wrong to do it and she was wrong (less wrong, but still wrong) to forward it to his mother.
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  #29  
Old 13 June 2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
But does that mean a victim shouldn't be allowed to do whatever it takes to hold her abuser (stalker, creep, whatever) accountable for his actions?
How is showing the picture to his mom holding him accountable?

ETA: I would have recommended reporting him to the dating site (which could revoke his account) and at least attempting to file a police report.
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  #30  
Old 13 June 2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
She also could report him to the police (sometimes a single communication can be considered stalking).
Ok then, that answers the initial question I had in this thread, because precursory googling only got me answers about prolonged stalking and lawyers. If the police would truly deal with it I absolutely agree they should have handled it. But I wonder if something so common is really being dealt with consistantly by law enforcement.
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  #31  
Old 13 June 2013, 07:04 PM
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It may not be dealt with (or she may be in a state where there has to be a pattern to establish stalking). But, as stated in the first page of this thread, that doesn't mean that the victim gets carte blanche to do whatever she wants.

ETA: Interestingly, I found this when looking for stalking information.
Quote:
Some things stalkers do:
...
Find out about you by using public records or online search services, hiring investigators, going through your garbage, or contacting friends, family, neighbors, or co-workers.
Posting information or spreading rumors about you on the Internet, in a public place, or by word of mouth.
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  #32  
Old 13 June 2013, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
Ok then, that answers the initial question I had in this thread, because precursory googling only got me answers about prolonged stalking and lawyers. If the police would truly deal with it I absolutely agree they should have handled it. But I wonder if something so common is really being dealt with consistantly by law enforcement.
I hope it is. But if it's not, what reason is there to believe that the guy's mother would have handled it any more effectively?
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  #33  
Old 13 June 2013, 07:06 PM
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She can still post about him on her blog certainly.
So (honest question) she can morally tell people who know her, but not people who know him?
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  #34  
Old 13 June 2013, 07:14 PM
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That's where intent comes into it. If her intent in telling others is to punish him, then it is morally wrong. If her intent is to inform (legitimately), complain, etc, then it is okay. If they have mutual friends, then she isn't morally prohibited from telling them, but the rules above still apply.

This is okay:
A: What's the deal with you and C? You always leave if he shows up?
B: He's creepy. We were chatting about the weather and he sends me a picture of his junk.

ETA: "punish him" is the wrong phrase. But I'm not sure what the right one is.
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  #35  
Old 13 June 2013, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
I understand having compassion for the mom, but telling a victim she can't share evidence of harassment isn't right, either.
So it's harassment when he does but sharing evidence when she does it?

She didn't send it to the police or a lawyer... she sent it to his mother.
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  #36  
Old 13 June 2013, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
I hope it is. But if it's not, what reason is there to believe that the guy's mother would have handled it any more effectively?
I honestly don't know. Maybe the victim hoped that hearing from a woman he respected might change his disrespect toward other women (she specifically mentioned 'respect' to him in a text), or that dragging a creeper into the light might deter him from creeping at another woman. The victim did say, "I'm tired of being treated like this," so it's possible she had tried other alternatives before.
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  #37  
Old 13 June 2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
So it's harassment when he does but sharing evidence when she does it?
Isn't footage of someone lighting a house on fire evidence of a crime, whether or not the police have seen it yet?

I do get your point about the irony of it, but would you think it was equally as bad if the victim had shown her own friends, or parents, or boyfriend?
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  #38  
Old 13 June 2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I can't imagine being a parent and finding out something like this about one of my kids.
Me neither, but I hope I would by angry at my son, and not at his victim.
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  #39  
Old 13 June 2013, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill View Post
I do get your point about the irony of it, but would you think it was equally as bad if the victim had shown her own friends, or parents, or boyfriend?
It's not irony so much as a double standard. It's like arguing that if someone shoots you should be able to dig the bullet out and shoot their mother.

I'm just saying whether or not it is 'evidence' she's not using it as such if she's showing it to someone that's not in some sort of legal or law enforcement or whatnot role.
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  #40  
Old 13 June 2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
No, I can't say I blame the woman, particularly. I don't know if it's the "right" response....but I'm sure not prepared to say it's wrong.
Personally I think that involving parents in any sort of dispute between two adults is not right.
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