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Old 12 September 2013, 04:05 AM
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Icon02 'No Muslim parking' signs spark outrage

New signs posted outside a mosque in Spring Branch, Texas, have sparked outrage from Muslims nationwide.

In black letters, the signs reads, "No Muslim parking in the Westview Shopping Center. Your car will be towed."

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/0...spark-outrage/
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Old 12 September 2013, 04:07 AM
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One worker said the shopping center owner, Steve Kwon, posted the signs. He denied it.

"I did not put up the signs," Kwon said. After speaking with KPRC, Kwon removed the signs.
Thank goodness they had the quote to back that statement up

I could see it as a (very poorly phrased) way to say that they don't want members of the Mosque taking up customer parking spaces.. Then again I can see it as a hateful message.. And of course it could be a bit of both.
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Old 12 September 2013, 04:25 AM
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I have seen plenty of shopping centres with some variant of "non-customers will be towed". If you do not want people who are not your customers using your parking lot, then that works and doesn't discriminate against any group of people except non-customers
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Old 12 September 2013, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by me, no really View Post
I have seen plenty of shopping centres with some variant of "non-customers will be towed". If you do not want people who are not your customers using your parking lot, then that works and doesn't discriminate against any group of people except non-customers
True, but I've also seen them that target a particular neighboring business (for example, a restaurant next to a church near my house says "No church parking". And one of my job's parking lots says "No [business next to us] Parking".

Of course that's a far cry from "no Muslim parking" but Hanlon's razor and all that.
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Old 12 September 2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mickey Blue View Post
True, but I've also seen them that target a particular neighboring business (for example, a restaurant next to a church near my house says "No church parking". And one of my job's parking lots says "No [business next to us] Parking".

Of course that's a far cry from "no Muslim parking" but Hanlon's razor and all that.
That's my thing about this whole thing. If it said "no Mosque parking" that would be fine. The fact that it said what it said shows ignorance at best and bigotry at worst.
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  #6  
Old 12 September 2013, 02:33 PM
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That's my entire point.
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  #7  
Old 12 September 2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mickey Blue View Post
...one of my job's parking lots says "No [business next to us] Parking".
Our parking lots (when the public can, theoretically, access them) say "Private property. Authorized personnel only." Kind of the opposite of "No Non-X Parking."

Seaboe
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Old 12 September 2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by fitz1980 View Post
That's my thing about this whole thing. If it said "no Mosque parking" that would be fine. The fact that it said what it said shows ignorance at best and bigotry at worst.
It is not particular ignorance for a person not to know the name for a Muslim worship hall. Those that I have seen i around here almost never have the words 'mosque' or 'masjid' on them. They say things like Muslim Worship Center or Muslim Community Center, along those lines. If that is what the facility said, then the person making the sign was just using the best identifier s/he could to say "Hey, if you are attending religious services, don't fill our parking lot." It really is no different from the "No Church Parking" signs, apparently, unless the intent was to say they also did not want any Muslim customers, which does not appear to be the case. However, I would agree that 'parking is for our sustomers only' would have been a preferable, more circumspect expression.
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Old 12 September 2013, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
It is not particular ignorance for a person not to know the name for a Muslim worship hall.
Actually, I'd say it does take a "particular ignorance" not to know a very common word for the type of building that not only serves as a place of worship for the world's second-largest religion but also features one of the world's oldest and most distinctive architectural styles.

Quote:
They say things like Muslim Worship Center or Muslim Community Center, along those lines. If that is what the facility said, then the person making the sign was just using the best identifier s/he could
No, in that case the "best identifier" would be "No [Muslim] Community Center parking" or something similar.

Quote:
It really is no different from the "No Church Parking" signs, apparently, unless the intent was to say they also did not want any Muslim customers, which does not appear to be the case.
Really? Do you think that if the location in question had been a Judaic religious center, the sign-makers(s) would have dared put up a sign reading "No Jew parking"?
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Old 12 September 2013, 03:47 PM
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Actually, I'd say it does take a "particular ignorance" not to know a very common word for the type of building that not only serves as a place of worship for the world's second-largest religion but also features one of the world's oldest and most distinctive architectural styles.
And a word that has been widely (and sometimes incorrectly) used in news accounts of controversies like the one surrounding the "Ground Zero Mosque."
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Old 12 September 2013, 03:59 PM
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It also requires a certain amount of ignorance to not talk to your neighbor when you have a problem with them. If the manager at the grocery store had talked to the people at the mosque, the mosque might have put signs asking their visitors not to park in the store parking lot. In that conversation, they could have figured out what the signage on both properties should be.
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Old 12 September 2013, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mickey Blue View Post
True, but I've also seen them that target a particular neighboring business (for example, a restaurant next to a church near my house says "No church parking". And one of my job's parking lots says "No [business next to us] Parking"
Just as an aside - there's a church downtown that has signs in its lot reading: "We forgive others their trespasses. However, your car will still be towed."
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Old 12 September 2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me, no really View Post
I have seen plenty of shopping centres with some variant of "non-customers will be towed". If you do not want people who are not your customers using your parking lot, then that works and doesn't discriminate against any group of people except non-customers
Except that there are people who are not "customers" who might nonetheless have legitimate business at a shopping center (e.g., job applicants, salesmen, service people), and such signage would exclude them from parking there.
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Old 12 September 2013, 07:49 PM
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I think those people would be aware they are exempted, and really it's not as if these places are checking everybody as they get out of their car, usually it's either:

1) Cars parked there for an extreme amount of time.

2) Lots of extra cars without lots of extra customers (particularly if during Sunday church service hours or some other event).

3) When you notice people park and then walk away somewhere else (this is how the place I work noticed that the neighboring businesses employees were using our lot).

I can't imagine anybody not understanding that even if a sign does say 'customer' it really means people who have business with the shop.
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Old 12 September 2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mickey Blue View Post
I think those people would be aware they are exempted.
I wouldn't assume I was exempted from a warning whose wording specifically denied me a particular permission.
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Old 12 September 2013, 08:01 PM
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What? Is this one of those exception-proves-the-rule examples?
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Old 12 September 2013, 08:06 PM
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What what? If a sign says "Customer parking only," I wouldn't assume the sign means "You can park here even if you're not a customer, as long as you have some reason for being here other than parking and leaving." Just as I wouldn't assume a sign reading "Employee parking only" means "You can park here even if you're only applying or interviewing for a job; we just don't want customers parking here."
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  #18  
Old 12 September 2013, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Mickey Blue View Post
3) When you notice people park and then walk away somewhere else (this is how the place I work noticed that the neighboring businesses employees were using our lot).
I commonly park at the store I expect to finish my shopping at, or at the one with the most room in its lot, but first do errands at other stores in the immediate area. I'm not, under ordinary conditions, going to move my car twenty or a hundred feet, possibly six times in quick succession, rather than walk that distance. It's extra wear and tear on both the car and the air quality of the immediate area; it's likely to take longer to get into the car, in and out of the seatbelt, and in and out of the parking lots and parking spaces than to walk a short distance; and the walking is good for me.

If the parking lot is jammed and/or very small, then I don't do this. And I am a customer of the business I parked at; I don't park in the lot of a business I'm not going to shop at.

-- That doesn't apply to the OP situation, of course; at least, not unless the people attending the mosque had originally planned to do their shopping before or after services at the shopping center in question. If they had been, I bet they aren't going to any longer, and the center just lost itself a whole lot of business.

ETA: To dodge snopes' objection: I have seen signs that say "Parking for [fill in name of business] Only." It seems to me that this would cover both customers and others with business at that operation; and manage to do so without insulting anybody.
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  #19  
Old 12 September 2013, 09:01 PM
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Yes, a sign reading something like "Westridge Mall parking only" or the like should cover things.
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  #20  
Old 13 September 2013, 05:19 PM
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Sometimes its a way of sending the message that yes we know 'you' are parking in the lot against our rules.

Also I suspect most people have some kind of threshhold of how long is appropriate, particularly areas with lots of busineses in the area. The situations I am referring to are not compatable businesses, in other words you aren't just shopping up and down main street, you are parking at one business's office parking and going to work at another businesses office parking.
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