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Old 07 February 2014, 07:56 PM
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Icon18 Things you recently figured out

I just recently discovered the "New Posts" feature of this website, despite having been a member for almost 10 years.

Capt. Picard's Borg name, Locutus, is based on the Latin word loqui, "to speak," from which we get "loquaciousness" and "elocution," among other words. Seem apt, given that he was the single voice of the Collective at that time.
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Old 07 February 2014, 09:23 PM
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I only very recently learned what a "Deuce Coupe" like in the Beach Boys' song is.
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Old 07 February 2014, 09:41 PM
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On a snopes-related note, I recently realized that we have several American snopesters living abroad--ganzfeld, Ramblin' Dave, Die Capacitrix and Der Induktionator(and that the last two are married to each other). There's probably more I'm forgetting.

On a non-snopes note, I used to wonder "Why do we yell 'Timber!' when a tree falls?" Then it finally hit me: Timber=wood. And what are trees made of?
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Old 09 February 2014, 02:55 AM
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There is a restaurant nearby called "The Friendly Toast." I just recently realized it wasn't referring to gregarious warmed bread.

Lyric-cheers!-coloratura
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Old 10 February 2014, 03:23 PM
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Glasses

I thought this sort of thing was what the "Things you should know but didn't" thread was for? Do we really need two threads for this?

Seaboe
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  #6  
Old 10 February 2014, 03:44 PM
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Maybe that is a future TGG post?
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Old 11 February 2014, 08:04 AM
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France

Iraq is analogous to Vietnam after all, just not strictly parallel. We're not the Americans, we're the French, and instead of losing at a metaphorical "Dien Bien Phu" we were actually successful militarily but we still left, much as I suspect even a victorious France wouldn't have stayed in Indochina forever (de-colonialization was the trend pretty much everywhere else, succesful insurgency or no). The insurgency was always going to be there, waiting for another chance, only in Vietnam, as history played out (with a decisive defeat of the French military) they only needed that "other chance" in (the southern) half of the county. Now the question is could our metaphorical "unified anti-Communist Vietnemese government" (our present Government of Iraq) have defeated the resurgent Viet Minh post-withdrawal (in the alternate timeline in which the French were undefeated and left a single unified Vietnamese government behind)? We shall see...
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Old 11 February 2014, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittykins View Post
On a snopes-related note, I recently realized that we have several American snopesters living abroad--ganzfeld, Ramblin' Dave, Die Capacitrix and Der Induktionator(and that the last two are married to each other). There's probably more I'm forgetting.
Me too. But you could be excused for not noticing, as I'm quite anglicized these days - at least until I open up my mouth!
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Old 11 February 2014, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittykins View Post
On a snopes-related note, I recently realized that we have several American snopesters living abroad--ganzfeld, Ramblin' Dave, Die Capacitrix and Der Induktionator(and that the last two are married to each other). There's probably more I'm forgetting.
Heh. I knew Die and Der were married to each other, but I didn't know they're American. (I never got around to asking the familiar question, native speaker abroad or learned really well.)
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Old 11 February 2014, 08:21 PM
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TYRFO - In A Charlie Brown Christmas, the scraggly tree represents Charlie Brown (and he in turn represents all of us), trying to stand up and be special on our own, but needing the attention, support and encouragement of friends, family and neighbors to really be the best we can be. I am not one who picks up on symbolism too readily, especially since people who seem to find lots of it seem to overdo it, so I turn off to it.
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Old 11 February 2014, 08:35 PM
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How does one "overdo" seeing symbolism in things?

ETA: If g-you see it, you see it.
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Old 19 February 2014, 01:19 PM
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I didn't "figure it out" but I just found out that fava beans (of "... with fava beans and a nice Chianti" fame) are the same thing as broad beans. I don't like broad beans much, so that's put me off the idea.

This was thanks to the article below, from which I also learned that falafel is often made with broad beans mixed in with, or even instead of, the chickpeas:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...erfect-falafel

I do like falafel, so maybe broad beans aren't that bad after all. Now to source some decent liver from somewhere...
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Old 19 February 2014, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
How does one "overdo" seeing symbolism in things?

ETA: If g-you see it, you see it.
The same way most things are overdone, you do it beyond the opinion of the one saying it is overdone.
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Old 19 February 2014, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
How does one "overdo" seeing symbolism in things?

ETA: If g-you see it, you see it.
I have often heard or read people talking about symbolism in different things where there is no sense to the symbolism claimed, and it seems to be just that person's imposition of their own attitudes on a work, utterly unsupported by the work, and with no explanation for how the presence of X actually means Y. Back to the Charlie Brown Christmas as an example, trying to adduce symbolism to each of the various dance moves of the Peanuts gang beyond the fact that they were all dancing would be to impose meaning that the artists did not put into the work. You can reflect on that as showing them living in the moment as a good thing, or as ignoring the Christmas pageant they are supposed to be preparing as a bad thing, or some variation on that. But the dancing is just dancing; it is what they are doing. It reflects their mental state. If you want to call it symbolic of their mental state, I am okay with that, but if you were to try to claim particular meanings beyond that to the dance moves, you had better at least be able to explain a substantial basis for your claims, either in traditional symbolism or how the symbolism works in the context of the show. Some things are just setting or description. In A Horse With No Name, both the horse and 'the river that flowed' are symbolic - they mean something beyond just a horse and a dry riverbed. But the 'plants and hills and rocks and things' are just setting the scene of being in a desert; they do not symbolize being in a desert, they ARE the desert. To put it simply, 'sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.'
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Old 19 February 2014, 04:25 PM
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But symbols are not things artists or writers "put into their work." They exist in the cultural community of the readers, which may or may not be shared by the writer, and which will differ depending on who is responding to the text at what time. It doesn't matter what Fitzgerald "meant" the green light to symbolize at the end of The Great Gatsby, except to the extent that it has meaning to characters within the book. If to those who read it, it means something else as well that Fitzgerald didn't consciously think of, that doesn't mean those readers are "overdoing" the symbolism. It just means it means something else to them.
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Old 19 February 2014, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
If you want to call it symbolic of their mental state, I am okay with that, but if you were to try to claim particular meanings beyond that to the dance moves, you had better at least be able to explain a substantial basis for your claims. .
Why? If that's what it means to me, that's what it means to me. If it means nothing, or something different, to you, that just means we disagree. Symbolism isn't a question of objective fact, so the idea of having as "basis for [my] claims" is irrelevant.

ETA: If I were specifically claiming that the author intended for X to symbolize Y, then I could understand your asking for evidence. But if I say that X symbolizes Y, I'm talking about what X means to me.
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Old 19 February 2014, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack View Post
Some things are just setting or description. In A Horse With No Name, both the horse and 'the river that flowed' are symbolic - they mean something beyond just a horse and a dry riverbed. But the 'plants and hills and rocks and things' are just setting the scene of being in a desert; they do not symbolize being in a desert, they ARE the desert.
How do you know that? Did the Symbolism Ministry issue an authoritative ruling on "A Horse with No Name"?
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  #18  
Old 19 February 2014, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
How does one "overdo" seeing symbolism in things?

ETA: If g-you see it, you see it.
When people start acting on seeing symbols and it impacts the lives of others. That is an "overdo".

Small example, after September 11, 2001, there was a group of people online who called for the change of the emergency number 911 because of its symbol being the same as the date (as Americans do it) 9-11.

Another example, seeing an image of the devil in the wood in a hospital door and fearing to take your child to that hospital because of the symbol of evil.

I know of someone who sees the fingerprint of the illuminati everywhere, and I mean everywhere. The conspiracies built around some of these symbols is enough to cause anguish in his friends and family.

I'm just bringing up some examples, not discounting anyone's opinion.
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Old 19 February 2014, 04:56 PM
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All of those problems are people drawing conclusions from symbols they have identified and acting irrationally because of them, though. They don't speak to whether or not the symbols actually exist. Personally, I don't think the cross-shape in the wreckage of the WTC was "meant" by anyone, but that doesn't mean the people who saw it as symbolic of divine hope were overdoing things. Symbols aren't necessarily rational or logical.
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Old 19 February 2014, 05:00 PM
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You are free to see symbolism in anything you want.

Claiming the symbolism was intended or seeing the symbolism as anything more then just that is another thing.
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