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  #41  
Old 03 October 2017, 04:40 AM
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I actually purposefully came to snopes because I needed to say all that. If you look at my posting history you'll find I'm hardly ever here anyway. Snopes is not the barrage.

My job is about 50% managing social media accounts, so no, I absolutely can't shut down all media. Quite the opposite.
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  #42  
Old 03 October 2017, 09:03 AM
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Default Facebook and Google promote politicized fake news about Las Vegas shooter

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-news-shooter

Quotes from Brooke Binkowski in here:

Quote:
“It’s getting more polarized. There’s this mad scramble to paint the guy as a Democrat or a Republican, so they can cheer,” Brooke Binkowski, managing editor of fact-checking website Snopes.com, said in an interview. “A lot of this is pushed by trolls deliberately to muddy the conversation.”

False content can quickly move from social media to legitimate news sources, she added: “People are putting out crap information on purpose … It’s really easy to get shit into the news cycle by being on Twitter.”
I'm not entirely sure at the article's attempt at "both sides are doing it" balance, though. On the one side, apparently the usual alt-right groups deliberately circulated the wrong name and tried to prove he was connected to all sorts of left-wing causes. On the other side, according to the article:

Quote:
On the flipside, some conservatives on Twitter have theorized that leftwing social media users have attempted to falsely paint Paddock as a rightwing individual. Some have speculated that liberals are posing as white nationalists and Trump supporters and following a Twitter account that has the same name as the suspect, in hopes of proving he is a conservative.
... So, the same people speculate that left-wing types are doing it as well. Hmm, yes, those things are definitely equivalent.
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  #43  
Old 03 October 2017, 01:01 PM
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The media has to provide balance. One side is clearly doing very bad things, so let's say that maybe some on the other side might do bad things too. See, all balanced, no need for further conversation!
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  #44  
Old 03 October 2017, 01:18 PM
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Anyone else reminded of Trump and his “You also had some very fine people on both sides,”?
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  #45  
Old 03 October 2017, 02:26 PM
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Avril, you say you know what the symptoms are. I hope you are working with a professional, or seek one out, to help with alleviating them. Because hoping for a break from effed up things happening in the world is not going to produce results in improving those symptoms. It seems about as realistic as someone saying you should just cheer up.
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  #46  
Old 03 October 2017, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mochrie99 View Post
But if not a "terrorist" (domestic or otherwise), what should we call the person who perpetrated this attack? He caused terror through his actions, regardless of it was towards some political or social ideal. Surely that can be defined as terrorism, at least as a more broad definition of the word. It just seems to be that, in general, the term is only applied after mass attacks carried out by, or at least is strictly a non-Caucasian phenomenon. Which by all rights should not be the case.
I think even the broadest definitions of terrorism include that the attack is perpetrated as a means to an end. It is motivated by a desire to promote some cause.

If that is not present, then it isn't terrorism.

He can presently be called a mass murderer. So far, there's no evidence that he had any end in mind other than killing a bunch of people.

The answer to the unequal application of the term terrorist is not to apply it so broadly (but equally) that it loses all of its distinct meaning.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox...vegas-shooting

Last edited by erwins; 03 October 2017 at 02:58 PM.
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  #47  
Old 03 October 2017, 05:28 PM
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[QUOTE=erwins;1960592The answer to the unequal application of the term terrorist is not to apply it so broadly (but equally) that it loses all of its distinct meaning.[/QUOTE]The word "terrorism" has basically fallen to the level of "weapon of mass destruction". Neither really has much useful meaning as they are currently used.
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  #48  
Old 03 October 2017, 05:33 PM
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When was terrorism ever a more distinct word? There was a famous thought exercise prior to 9/11 of trying to define what a terrorist actually was.
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  #49  
Old 03 October 2017, 06:13 PM
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Erwins and UEL are right. “Terrorism” may now be sometimes used colloquially, and incorrectly, to refer to any extreme act of violence, but it has been a distinct, political concept for a very long time.

Quote:
terrorism (n.)
1795, in specific sense of "government intimidation during the Reign of Terror in France" (March 1793-July 1794), from French terrorisme, from Latin terror (see terror).
[...]
General sense of "systematic use of terror as a policy" is first recorded in English 1798 (in reference to the Irish Rebellion of that year). At one time, a word for a certain kind of mass-destruction terrorism was dynamitism (1883); and during World War I frightfulness (translating German Schrecklichkeit) was used in Britain for "deliberate policy of terrorizing enemy non-combatants."
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...arch=Terrorism


Modern definitions hold to that as well. Webster’s dictionary calls it “the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion,” and the Oxford Cambridge dictionary calls it “violent action for political purpose.” Killing for for the sake of killing just doesn’t fall into that category.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/d...sm?q=Terrorism
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  #50  
Old 03 October 2017, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
... So, the same people speculate that left-wing types are doing it as well. Hmm, yes, those things are definitely equivalent.
Knowing a fair number of left-wing types, I haven't seen any attempt to paint this shooter as being particularly right-wing (other than perhaps by the fact that he owned a crapload of guns). It doesn't seem to fit; why would an angry right-winger target random people at a country music festival? Granted, you don't expect such a shooter to be entirely rational in his decision, but generally right-wing terrorism in this country isn't about just killing a random bunch of people; it's more targeted.

You might say that left-wingers tended to immediately blame the episode on the easy availability of the weapons used (before complete facts came out about the actual weapons, how they were obtained, or what may have motivated the shooter), and for predicting that conservatives would deny that any change in gun laws might have prevented the incident (also without full information regarding the weapons or how they were obtained) -- but that's not quite the same.
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  #51  
Old 03 October 2017, 07:04 PM
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Richard's point, AIUI, was not that left-wingers were actually doing that, but that right-wingers were speculating about left-wingers doing it, and that speculation was being used as evidence that there was fault on both sides.
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  #52  
Old 03 October 2017, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
... and that speculation was being used as evidence that there was fault ...
Hmm, who do we know that uses that strategy regularly? "Some people say" it is the Turnip.
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  #53  
Old 03 October 2017, 07:52 PM
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I should have made clear that I realized that, but yeah, it's not right.
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  #54  
Old 03 October 2017, 08:38 PM
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I guess then I should refer to the shooter as, say, a “mass murdering NFBSKhole.” Works for me.
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  #55  
Old 03 October 2017, 08:52 PM
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Dem blasts moments of silence after mass shootings as "grisly House ritual."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaki...z&ocid=U007DHP

Quote:
Rep. Katherine Clark (D-Mass.) on Tuesday expressed frustration with lawmakers observing a moment of silence in response to the mass shooting in Las Vegas, calling it a "grisly House ritual."
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  #56  
Old 03 October 2017, 10:43 PM
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Default Las Vegas gunman may have planned earlier attack

Quote:
Law enforcement officials are investigating whether Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock had been planning an earlier attack in the city, a law enforcement source confirmed to CBS News' Pat Milton. According to a law enforcement source, investigators are looking at whether he may have first had his sights on the "Life is Beautiful" festival on Sept. 22 to Sept. 24.

The source, who was briefed on the police investigation, said Paddock had apparently tried to get a room at The Ogden and another hotel in downtown Las Vegas, but apparently the specific suites he requested were booked. The source speculated that Paddock may have been seeking rooms that were strategically located to the festival to launch an attack.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-veg...arlier-attack/

Not that it makes a good deal of difference in attempting to determine a motive, from what I can tell. Although the Life is Beautiful festival apparently had a much larger attendance, so the carnage might have been even worse.
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  #57  
Old 03 October 2017, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mochrie99 View Post
I guess then I should refer to the shooter as, say, a “mass murdering NFBSKhole.” Works for me.
That feels better than plain old “mass murderer,” anyway. I think people want to use “terrorist” because it feels stronger, and it all seems so senseless in the end, no matter what their reasoning was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
Although the Life is Beautiful festival apparently had a much larger attendance, so the carnage might have been even worse.
Possibly. Looking at the current available timeline, it seems like he just quit on his own at some point. The door to the hotel didn’t get broken down until 72 minutes after the first 911 call, at last 30 minutes, maybe more, after he stopped shooting. He had more weapons, more rounds. If he’d wanted to hurt more people, it looks like he could have.

I’m glad he was alone.

Last edited by Little Pink Pill; 03 October 2017 at 11:28 PM.
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  #58  
Old 03 October 2017, 11:13 PM
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Wolf When white men turn into lone wolves

There is an epidemic ravaging America. Not gun violence. These mass shootings, as the president so sagely points out, are simply "pure evil," not the work of human hands and cannot be stopped by human efforts.

I am talking about the wolves.

All across America white men, some young, some of middle-age, are turning into wolves. Always, after they commit acts of terror, it is revealed out that these perpetrators were not men after all. They were beasts, mindless monsters whose evil was abstract and cold and terrible.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...003-story.html
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  #59  
Old 03 October 2017, 11:16 PM
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In many of these situations, it seems to me, the relatives and friends are "Shocked, shocked I tell you" that the person was capable of this.

No different here. His brother says he helped him move to Nevada, and said he only saw a couple of handguns, nothing else.

I'm starting to become somewhat cynical about these denials of any knowledge of anything strange.
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  #60  
Old 03 October 2017, 11:34 PM
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One question is how you would define strange or suspicious behavior for someone who's been a reclusive gun horder most of their life.
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