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  #41  
Old 05 September 2017, 05:45 PM
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In fact, they thanked the nurse for protecting their reserve officer's privacy.
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  #42  
Old 05 September 2017, 06:11 PM
Dr. Dave Dr. Dave is offline
 
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Indeed! Though they thanked the Utah police ("other agencies") for investigating, I did find it telling that they made it very clear that the nurse did the right thing, which in this case means she (tried to?*) stopped the Utah police from doing the wrong thing.

*Did we ever learn if the cop took the patient's blood in the end?
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  #43  
Old 05 September 2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Dave View Post
Indeed! Though they thanked the Utah police ("other agencies") for investigating, I did find it telling that they made it very clear that the nurse did the right thing, which in this case means she (tried to?*) stopped the Utah police from doing the wrong thing.

*Did we ever learn if the cop took the patient's blood in the end?
And did we ever learn why? I have read that the police didn't know the guy was a reserve officer, so it wasn't to cover his ass. Some speculation that it was to cover their own asses because the chase that caused the crash in the first place was against procedure and the wanted proof of the victim's possible impairment in case of lawsuit.
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  #44  
Old 05 September 2017, 06:27 PM
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It was to prove that the (late) criminal they were chasing, and not the injured truck driver, was responsible for the crash.

Proving whether the truck driver was impaired wouldn't prove anything about whether the deceased driver was impaired. Proving he was not would protect the truck driver.

ETA: Just because some cops are jerks doesn't mean no cop ever does anything to protect a civilian. They could have started out with good intentions. That might be why the cop was so angry (not that it excuses his behavior).
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  #45  
Old 05 September 2017, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
It was to prove that the (late) criminal they were chasing, and not the injured truck driver, was responsible for the crash.

Proving whether the truck driver was impaired wouldn't prove anything about whether the deceased driver was impaired. Proving he was not would protect the truck driver.

ETA: Just because some cops are jerks doesn't mean no cop ever does anything to protect a civilian. They could have started out with good intentions. That might be why the cop was so angry (not that it excuses his behavior).
But it still doesn't make sense. There is no reason to suspect the truck driver - no probable cause, remember - therefore presumption of innocence should prevail. And I believe I've seen some mention (somebody back me up here) that the hospital DID conduct toxicology tests to make sure there would be no problem with his sedation, so hospital records could be used to protect him in any possible civil suit.
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  #46  
Old 05 September 2017, 07:19 PM
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AIUI, the officer wasn't aware that blood had already been drawn. I'd guess because that information was protected under HIPAA.
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  #47  
Old 05 September 2017, 10:21 PM
Sooeygun Sooeygun is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ChasFink View Post
But it still doesn't make sense. There is no reason to suspect the truck driver - no probable cause, remember - therefore presumption of innocence should prevail. And I believe I've seen some mention (somebody back me up here) that the hospital DID conduct toxicology tests to make sure there would be no problem with his sedation, so hospital records could be used to protect him in any possible civil suit.
Can't help you on that.

But I agree that there was never any question of the innocence of the victim. The police were chasing the now deceased driver at high speed (contrary to police policy) and he drove into on-coming traffic. This is dash cam footage of the last part of the chase and the crash from 2 different cop cars.
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  #48  
Old 06 September 2017, 04:52 AM
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Salt Lake City police Detective Jeff Payne has been fired from his part-time paramedic job as the fallout continues from his arrest of a University Hospital nurse in July. Payne’s actions ”violated several company policies and left a poor image of the company,” Gold Cross President Mike Moffitt said in a Tuesday interview. ”We determined today it was best to part ways.”

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/0...paramedic-job/
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  #49  
Old 06 September 2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
AIUI, the officer wasn't aware that blood had already been drawn. I'd guess because that information was protected under HIPAA.
Probably true. But it would be reasonable to assume that hospital SOP would check for drugs to avoid a bad interaction. It just makes the officer's insistence that he must draw blood to protect this stranger from blame all the more baffling.
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  #50  
Old 06 September 2017, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasFink View Post
Probably true. But it would be reasonable to assume that hospital SOP would check for drugs to avoid a bad interaction. It just makes the officer's insistence that he must draw blood to protect this stranger from blame all the more baffling.
I've read enough NTSB reports to know that if the truck driver works for a commercial carrier, a drug test has to be done within 24 hours of their involvement in an accident. It's a requirement and would have nothing to do with them being suspected of a crime or not. I haven't heard anywhere if he is a commercial carrier or not, but it may have played a factor here.

~Psihala
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  #51  
Old 06 September 2017, 05:46 PM
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Default Utah cop who arrested nurse over blood draw fired from second job

A Utah police detective accused of assaulting and unlawfully arresting a nurse after she refused to let him take a blood sample from an unconscious patient without a warrant was fired on Tuesday from his second job as a part-time ambulance driver.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/uta...uUP?li=BBnbfcL
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  #52  
Old 07 September 2017, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Psihala View Post
I haven't heard anywhere if he is a commercial carrier or not, but it may have played a factor here.
It sounds like he was. Note that the truck he was driving has been described as a semi truck, so he'd have to have something more than a general operator's license to begin with.

Quote:
Gray was severely injured in a northern Utah crash in July while working his full-time job as a truck driver.
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  #53  
Old 07 September 2017, 03:39 PM
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Latest news I've read here is that the Logan police department, where the accident happened, originally asked for the blood draw. When Payne told them it was difficult, they told him not to worry about it, and they would get it a different way. It isn't clear in the linked article, but the morning news made it clear that this was before the arrest.
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  #54  
Old 11 October 2017, 04:00 AM
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Default Utah police officer fired for treatment of nurse who refused blood draw

A Utah police officer was fired Tuesday after being seen on video roughly handcuffing a nurse because she refused to allow a blood draw in an incident that became a flashpoint in the conversation about use of force by police.

Salt Lake City police Chief Mike Brown made the decision to fire Det. Jeff Payne after an internal investigation found he violated department policies when he arrested nurse Alex Wubbels and dragged her screaming from the hospital, department spokesperson Sgt. Brandon Shearer said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/utah-po...urse-1.4348819
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  #55  
Old 11 October 2017, 03:54 PM
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That is good. Even better if he faces prosecution, but I won't hold my breath.

Pretty sure that the lieutenant should have been fired too.

Quote:
Tracy made an impulsive decision in ordering Payne to arrest Wubbels without first taking time to understand the facts of the situation and the law, Brown wrote in his disciplinary letter.
Won't Tracy still be making those types of decisions as an officer?
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  #56  
Old 11 October 2017, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Payne was also fired from a part-time job as a paramedic after he was caught on camera saying he'd take transient patients to the University of Utah hospital where Wubbels worked and transport "good patients" elsewhere.
What a charming individual.

I seem to recall hearing or reading somewhere that the patient the nurse was protecting died of his injuries, but I don't have time to look for it right at the moment.

~Psihala
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  #57  
Old 11 October 2017, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasFink View Post
But it still doesn't make sense. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooeygun View Post
The police were chasing the now deceased driver at high speed (contrary to police policy)
Some nasty suspicious part of my head wonders if the police force wanted the blood draw, not in the hope of protecting the truck driver by proving he was sober, but in the hope that he wasn't sober, so they could distract from their part in causing the accident by trying to put some of the blame on him.

I have no idea, however, whether trying to check sobriety of all parties to an accident is just standard procedure in that area.
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  #58  
Old 11 October 2017, 04:28 PM
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He passed away late September.
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  #59  
Old 11 October 2017, 04:49 PM
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That's very much too bad, GenYus.

-- that article does say

Quote:
Utah police routinely collect such evidence from everyone involved in fatal crashes.
and the person they were chasing had already died; so it sounds as if they just wanted the blood draw as a matter of routine, and my suspicions weren't warranted. (The nurse was still correct to refuse the draw, however.)
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  #60  
Old 11 October 2017, 05:34 PM
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The part about routinely collecting such evidence would seem to contradict the first article which states that blood can only be drawn with a warrant derived from probable cause. And the video showed the nurse describing an agreement between the hospital and the police that required that the patient either be under arrest or that the officer has probable cause. Either the police department is collecting evidence illegally or it means that they routinely collect such evidence when there is probable cause to do so.
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