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Old 09 March 2008, 10:53 AM
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BrianB BrianB is offline
 
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Shout A salute to Denmark (very long anti immigrant/Muslim rant)

I got this one on Friday from my usual source of glurge and right wing forwards. I searched the main site, here, and the old board and didn't find it. However, chow if necessary. (Presented without comment.)
Quote:
This guy prefers to be anonymous--and maybe for good reason.
Interesting!

Subject: A SALUTE TO DENMARK


In 1978-79 I was living and studying in Denmark. But in 1978 - even in Copenhagen, one didn't see Muslim immigrants.

The Danish population embraced visitors, celebrated the exotic, went out of its way to protect each of its citizens. It
was proud of its new brand of socialist liberalism one in development since the conservatives had lost power in 1929 - a system where no worker had to struggle to survive, where one ultimately could count upon the state as in, perhaps, no other western nation at the time.

The rest of Europe saw the Scandinavians as free-thinking, progressive and infinitely generous in their welfare policies. Denmark boasted low crime rates, devotion to the environment, a superior educational system and a history of humanitarianism.

Denmark was also most generous in its immigration policies - it offered the best welcome in Europe to the new immigrant: generous welfare payments from first arrival plus additional perks in transportation, housing and education. It was determined to set a world example for inclusiveness and multiculturalism.

How could it have predicted that one day in 2005 a series of political cartoons in a newspaper would spark violence that would leave dozens dead in the streets -all because its commitment to multiculturalism would come back to bite?

By the 1990's the growing urban Muslim population was obvious - and its unwillingness to integrate into Danish society was obvious.

Years of immigrants had settled into Muslim-exclusive enclaves. As the Muslim leadership became more vocal about what they considered the decadence of Denmark's liberal way of life, the Danes - once so welcoming - began to feel slighted. Many Danes had begun to see Islam as incompatible with their long-standing values: belief in personal liberty and free speech, in equality for women, in tolerance for other ethnic groups, and a deep pride in Danish heritage and history.

The New York Post in 2002 ran an article by Daniel Pipes and Lars Hedegaard, in which they forecasted accurately that the growing immigrant problem in Denmark would explode. In the article they reported: "Muslim immigrants constitute 5 percent of the population but consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending. Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5.4 mill ion people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other crimes. Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less to mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane. Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes on pain of death - are one problem".

"Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that-remote prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim".

It is easy to understand why a growing number of Danes would feel that Muslim immigrants show little respect for Danish values and laws.

An example is the phenomenon common to other European countries and the U.S : some Muslims in Denmark who opted to leave the Muslim faith have been murdered in the name of Islam, while others hide in fear for their lives. Jews are also threatened and harassed openly by Muslim leaders in Denmark, a country where once Christian citizens worked to smuggle out nearly all of their 7,000 Jews by night to Sweden - before the Nazis could invade. I think of my Danish friend El sa - who as a teenager had dreaded crossing the street to the bakery every morning under the eyes of occupying Nazi soldiers - and I wonder what she would say today.

In 2001, Denmark elected the most conservative government in some 70 years - one that had some decidedly non-generous ideas about liberal unfettered immigration. Today Denmark has the strictest immigration policies in Europe. (Its effort to protect itself has been met with accusations of 'racism' by liberal media across Europe - even as other governments struggle to right the social problems wrought by years of too-lax immigration.)

If you wish to become Danish, you must attend three years of language classes. You must pass a test on Denmark's history, culture, and a Danish language test.

You must live in Denmark for 7 years before applying for citizenship. You must demonstrate an intent to work, and have a job waiting. If you wish to bring a spouse into Denmark, you must both be over 24 years of age, and you won't find it so easy anymore to move your friends and family to Denmark with you.

You will not be allowed to build a mosque in Copenhagen. Although your children have a choice of some 30 Arabic culture and language schools in Denmark, they will be strongly encouraged to assimilate to Danish society in ways that past immigrants weren't.

In 2006, the Danish minister for employment, Claus Hjort Frederiksen, spoke publicly of the burden of Muslim immigrants on the Danish welfare system, and it was horrifying: the government's welfare committee had calculated that if immigration from Third World countries were blocked, 75 percent of the cuts needed to sustain the huge welfare sy stem in coming decades would be unnecessary. In other words, the welfare system as it existed was being exploited by immigrants to the point of eventually bankrupting the government. 'We are simply forced to adopt a new policy on immigration.

The calculations of the welfare committee are terrifying and show how unsuccessful the integration of immigrants has been up to now,' he said.

A large thorn in the side of Denmark's imams is the Minister of Immigration and Integration, Rikke Hvilshøøj. She makes no bones about the new policy toward immigration, 'The number of foreigners coming to the country makes a difference,' says, 'There is an inverse correlation between how many come here and how well we can receive the foreigners that come.' And on Muslim immigrants needing to demonstrate a willingness to blend in, 'In my view, Denmark should be a country with room for different cultures and religions. Some values, however, are more important than others. We refuse to question democracy, equal rights, and freedom of speech.'

Hvilshøøj has paid a price for her show of backbone. Perhaps to test her resolve, the leading radical imam in Denmark, Ahmed Abdel Rahman Abu Laban, demanded that the government pay blood money to the family of a Muslim who was murdered in a suburb of Copenhagen, stating that the family's thirst for revenge could be thwarted for money. When Hvilshøøj dismissed his demand, he argued that in Muslim culture the payment of retribution money was common, to which Hvilshøøj replied that what is done in a Muslim country is not necessarily what is done in Denmark. The Muslim reply came soon after: her house was torched while she, her husband and children slept. All managed to escape unharmed, but she and her family were moved to a secret location and she and other ministers were assigned bodyguards for the first time - in a country where such murderous violence was once so scarce.

Her government has slid to the right, and her borders have tightened. Many believe that what happens in the next decade will determine whether Denmark survives as a bastion of good living, humane thinking and social responsibility, or whether it becomes a nation at civil war with supporters of Sharia law.

And meanwhile, Americans clamor for stricter immigration policies, and demand an end to state welfare programs that allow many immigrants to live on the public dole. As we in America look at the enclaves of Muslims amongst us, and see those who enter our shores too easily, dare live on our taxes, yet refuse to embrace our culture, respect our traditions, participate in our legal system, obey our laws, speak our language, appreciate our history . . we would do well to look to Denmark, and say a prayer for her future and for our own.
Brian
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  #2  
Old 09 March 2008, 11:29 AM
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Dara bhur gCara Dara bhur gCara is offline
 
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Okay, this seems to be an article by a woman called Susan MacAllen, who is a contributing editor to a fun website called Family Security Matters, which bills itself as "The National Security Resource for American Families." She also has a blog of her own, where I imagine this originally appeared. What I like is the bit at the foot of the article, where in the bit where you'd normally have the editor's explanation of the author's expertise on a subject (eg Dara bhur gCara is a contributing editor at Sideburn Afficionado. After a thirty-year career in advanced Moustache & Goatee Research at the Burnside Facial Hair Institute, he now works as an advisor to political campaigns on facial hair grooming issues, which would be excellent credentials if I was writing an article on sideburns.) Ms MacAllen's credentials are given as "She has lived overseas and been intimately involved in the French culture since the Muslim immigrant population emerged in the south of France." Those are certainly impressive credentials indeed.

Her author's Bio has some great other articles she's written for FSM, like "Canada, our Troublesome Northern 'Friend,'" or "A Terrorist By Any Other Name....Still Kills."

With regard to the content of the article itself, it's essentially a mix of truth, half-truth and elision. A good example being:

Quote:
When Hvilshøøj dismissed his demand, he argued that in Muslim culture the payment of retribution money was common, to which Hvilshøøj replied that what is done in a Muslim country is not necessarily what is done in Denmark.
Now, what Hvilshøøj actually said was ""Nor do we trade camels in Denmark." So, while it's kind of true that that's a way of saying "what is done in a Muslim country is not necessarily what is done in Denmark," it's interesting that MacAllen has chosen to paraphrase Ms Hvilshøøj there, don't you think?
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  #3  
Old 09 March 2008, 12:02 PM
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OmmeLise OmmeLise is offline
 
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Wow! One wouldn't want to live in that country... Hey, wait a minute...!

Now on a more serious note while i'm not proud of the way we treat immigrants and fugitives in Denmark i do think the rant in the OP is Bulls***! We do actually have hardworking well-integrated immigrants here. And we do not ALL hate muslims. These people have nothing to fear from most of us but as everywhere we do have racists and less tolerant people among us.

On the matter of getting citizenship please bear in mind that Denmark is a country of only 5,5 million people. We do not have the capacity or resources to integrate an infinitive amount of people. And while i think we should let more people into our country than we do we can't just open our borders. We have a responsibillity to give the people who come into our country a decent life.

Just my two cent
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  #4  
Old 09 March 2008, 01:04 PM
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Tarquin Farquart Tarquin Farquart is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dara bhur gCara View Post
Ms MacAllen's credentials are given as "She has lived overseas and been intimately involved in the French culture since the Muslim immigrant population emerged in the south of France." Those are certainly impressive credentials indeed.
I wonder what she thought of French culture before the Muslims emerged?
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  #5  
Old 09 March 2008, 01:31 PM
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Dara bhur gCara Dara bhur gCara is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarquin Farquart View Post
I wonder what she thought of French culture before the Muslims emerged?
She didn't know very much about it, really. She's only been "intimately involved with the French Culture since the Muslim immigrant population emerged in the south of France."

Actually, now I come to think of it, the implication of that is that Ms MacAllen emerged with the Muslim immigrant population. That can't be right, surely?

To go back to the actual OP, when Ms MacAllen writes:

Quote:
An example is the phenomenon common to other European countries and the U.S : some Muslims in Denmark who opted to leave the Muslim faith have been murdered in the name of Islam, while others hide in fear for their lives.
Now I can't actually find an example of a Muslim in Denmark being murdered for leaving the Muslim faith. You'd imagine something like that would get into the papers. In Denmark, at least. What there is is one story from 2001, which is also cited by Pipes and Hedegaard, of a Kurdish convert to Christianity, who felt the need to conceal her identity and move away from her area because she had changed her faith. While that covers the whole 'others hide in fear for their lives,' I suppose, it doesn't address in the slightest her larger, more controversial assertion.

Does anyone have any information on former Muslims in Denmark being murdered for having left the Muslim faith?
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Old 09 March 2008, 02:50 PM
Insensible Crier Insensible Crier is offline
 
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I'm confused.

Quote:
The Danish population embraced visitors, celebrated the exotic, went out of its way to protect each of its citizens.
Unless you're Muslim then you need to go away?
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  #7  
Old 10 March 2008, 12:50 AM
Natalie Natalie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dara bhur gCara View Post
Does anyone have any information on former Muslims in Denmark being murdered for having left the Muslim faith?
I suppose it's possible that the author is misunderstanding or deliberately misstating the murder of the documentary filmmaker Theo Van Gogh and the murder, I think, of a female politician. But I don't believe that either of those people were ever Muslims.
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  #8  
Old 10 March 2008, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
I suppose it's possible that the author is misunderstanding or deliberately misstating the murder of the documentary filmmaker Theo Van Gogh and the murder, I think, of a female politician. But I don't believe that either of those people were ever Muslims.
Or indeed Danish.
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Old 10 March 2008, 01:09 AM
Natalie Natalie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringTheNoise View Post
Or indeed Danish.
Danish, Dutch, same difference.[/sarcasm]
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  #10  
Old 10 March 2008, 09:18 AM
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OmmeLise OmmeLise is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
Danish, Dutch, same difference.[/sarcasm]
He he, I beg to differ
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  #11  
Old 10 March 2008, 03:14 PM
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Fright

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dara bhur gCara View Post
Her author's Bio has some great other articles she's written for FSM ...
FSM?

She's been touched by His Noodly Appendage?!?
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  #12  
Old 10 March 2008, 09:00 PM
Taken
 
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I’ve actually had the pleasure of visiting Scandinavia in 2006. I think it’s quite possibly the most beautiful place on earth and everyone was kind and polite. I was so taken I tried to teach myself Danish upon coming back.

Anyway, I’m seeing this article :
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12...in-sweden.html
reproduced and quote on more and more websites, blogs etc.
I think this is the original source.

Can anyone from Scandi comment on the veracity.
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