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  #1  
Old 04 April 2017, 06:03 PM
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Default Why is the evil good, why is the good evil, why is everything a dish rag?

(caption shamelessly stolen from a 19th century Swedish poem).

Anyway, why are people sometimes so totally clueless? I have just had a Facebook discussion with someone (Swedish speaker) from Finland about pet forms of names, Swedish and Finnish, and he just could not comprehend that the rather common Finnish name Pekka is a pet form of Petri (Peter, Petrus, Petros, whatever). "Oh, no", he wrote, "it's not a pet form but a derivation".

What is the effing difference?
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  #2  
Old 04 April 2017, 06:17 PM
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Well, I think there's a difference between a nickname and a given name, if you want it phrased differently (though I don't know whether that's what the person meant.)

Betsy is a common nickname for Elisabeth, for instance (to pick a name that has lots of common nicknames to play with.) A person formally named Elisabeth could be nicknamed Betsy.

But someone could have been given Betsy as their full name; in which case, for that person, it's not a nickname. But it is derived historically from the nickname for Elisabeth. Maybe that's what the person meant by being a derivative but not a pet form?

I don't see how it's possible to say overall that a name's a derivative rather than a nickname; because, as in the example I just gave, the same name could fall in both classes. But if talking about one's own name, or the name of a specific known person, then it does seem to me that the distinction can make sense. Someone whose full first name is Betsy might be reasonably annoyed if other people keep trying to fill Elisabeth in for her on forms, or trying to call her that in person.
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Old 04 April 2017, 06:28 PM
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Someone did get a nono the other week on a Swedish TV quiz show for answering that Al Bundy's wife is called Margaret
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Old 04 April 2017, 06:31 PM
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For me, a pet form would be a name based on the main name that wasn't commonly used as an legal name where a derivation would be one that was commonly used as a legal name. For example, friends of ours named their son Jack as his legal name, rather than a pet form of John. That would be a derivation.
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Old 04 April 2017, 06:53 PM
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Speaking of Jack, I once got into an argument with someone who insisted that Jack could not be a nickname/derivation/form of the name John. Despite me giving several well known examples, Jack Kennedy for instance, I was told "no could not be". When I then asked if Harry could be a nick name for Henry I was informed that Harry can only be a nickname for Harold. Despite, again, giving several well known examples, Prince Harry an obvious one, I was still told "no could not be" . It was around then that I gave up.
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Old 04 April 2017, 07:11 PM
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You should have blown his mind with Peggy for Margaret.
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Old 04 April 2017, 08:51 PM
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Or Ned from Edward.

Seaboe
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Old 04 April 2017, 11:17 PM
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Polly from Mary - although I don't think that happens much anymore.
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Old 04 April 2017, 11:23 PM
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I'm remembering a rhyme from my childhood, which was also a riddle; went something like:

Elizabeth, Liza, Betsy, Betty, and Bess
All went out together to get a birds' nest.

-- how many girls were there? I can't remember how the rest of the verse went. On to google --

There seem to be a lot of variations out there, with not quite the same list of names. Here's a sample:

Elizabeth, Elspeth, Betsy and Bess,
They all went together to seek a bird's nest.
They found a bird's nest with five eggs in,
They all took one, and left four in.*
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Old 05 April 2017, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Speaking of Jack, I once got into an argument with someone who insisted that Jack could not be a nickname/derivation/form of the name John. Despite me giving several well known examples, Jack Kennedy for instance, I was told "no could not be". When I then asked if Harry could be a nick name for Henry I was informed that Harry can only be a nickname for Harold. Despite, again, giving several well known examples, Prince Harry an obvious one, I was still told "no could not be" . It was around then that I gave up.
I was in my mid 20's when I discovered my Uncle Jack was called John.

It was my grandfather saying "John...other words" and both my uncle and I looked round for some-one called John before it clicked with him...
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Old 10 April 2017, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queen of the caramels View Post
I was in my mid 20's when I discovered my Uncle Jack was called John.

It was my grandfather saying "John...other words" and both my uncle and I looked round for some-one called John before it clicked with him...
My dad is a John who was called Jack by his family (since his dad was also a John.) Nobody else calls him that, though, everybody else uses John (which he prefers.) But it always confused me when I was little to hear some people call my dad John and hear others call him Jack.
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Old 10 April 2017, 05:29 PM
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Speaking of name confusion, one of my dad's sisters married a man whose first name was the same as our family name. So in addition to Uncle Robert D------, Uncle Jim D------, etc., I had an Uncle D------ OtherLastName. On the same side of the family. It confused me no end as a child.
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Old 10 April 2017, 08:27 PM
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Lainie, my father, my mother's only sister's husband, and the husband of the cousin who grew up next door to my mother and her sister, all had the same first name: Don.

Family reunions were a hoot, "Don?" and three men turn around. My cousin once called my father Uncle Daddy because of it.

Seaboe
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  #14  
Old 10 April 2017, 10:07 PM
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Read This!

I keep wanting to see the 19th century Swedish poem in the OP! It sounds cool.
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  #15  
Old 15 April 2017, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
Lainie, my father, my mother's only sister's husband, and the husband of the cousin who grew up next door to my mother and her sister, all had the same first name: Don.

Family reunions were a hoot, "Don?" and three men turn around. My cousin once called my father Uncle Daddy because of it.

Seaboe
Sounds like my father's side of the family... with the females. His mother, one of his sisters and his daughter (my sister) all had the same first name (and interestingly my sister and aunt both had the same full name- first, middle and last- before marriage). We used nicknames (or at least Nana in the case of my grandmother lol) to reduce the confusion.
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