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Old 05 October 2016, 04:34 PM
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Icon103 Bill Clinton: I "support" Obamacare

Former President Bill Clinton on Tuesday revisited the issue of his support of Obamacare, a day after he called President Obama’s signature healthcare law a “crazy system.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-cli...for-obamacare/
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Old 05 October 2016, 06:05 PM
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The thing is, it is a crazy system. By the time all the wangling was done to get it passed, it was stripped of most of the qualities that made it appealing to those of a progressive bent, and became a baroque mess of half-measures and band-aid approaches. For many, it's terrific; for others, it's terrifying. However, when the only alternative offered by the opposition is "tear it down and figure it out later," I think that it's the best that we as a nation could do.

I'm not defending the wisdom of Bill Clinton's public statement in the context of an election, but I certainly wouldn't consider the ACA a stunning success, either.
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Old 05 October 2016, 06:09 PM
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I think he was right on both counts: it is a crazy system that I support. I see it as an interim measure to hopefully work our way towards a national single payer system, but yeah, that was NOT going to fly.
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Old 05 October 2016, 06:28 PM
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Kind of like the "basket of deplorables". Arguably true (both parts of it; the ACA was probably the best we could get), but a really bad time to say it.

I am starting to wish really really hard that Warren had run.
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Old 06 October 2016, 03:43 PM
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Eh, literally anything the Clintons say is wrong somehow. There's an insane standard applied to Hillary that is just not applied to Trump and was not applied to her male opponents. The "basket of deplorables" is proof of that - Trump can spew racist invective all day and get pass after pass after pass, but oh that Hillary dared to call out his supporters?! We'd better focus on that!

Gee, I wonder why she's such a controlled and "robotic" candidate?

It's easy to say you're comfortable with a woman president when you name women that aren't running or deliberately stay outside the electoral process. Warren was VERY unpopular during her Senate campaign after all.
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Old 06 October 2016, 04:03 PM
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Oh, I'm quite comfortable with a woman president, and I'm supporting Clinton. There are some things I genuinely don't like about her, but there are going to be some things I don't like about anybody remotely likely to get nominated -- even among people not remotely likely to get nominated I don't expect to agree with anyone about everything. And Clinton against Trump is for me no contest whatsoever.

I just think that thirty years or so of running against the Clintons has allowed the Republicans to build up such a pile of negatives against her that she was starting from behind the block in the first place. I think that's a lot of what's allowing them to pull off this effect of 'Clinton is just as bad or worse' no matter what Trump says or does.
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Old 06 October 2016, 05:01 PM
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I don't even think it's bad timing. He said a true and reasonable thing about a system he supports but which also needs to be improved. The crazy things are all modifications that were forced by people who opposed the creation of any system that was likely to accomplish its goals.

I don't think candidates' spouses (or anyone) should have to not say any words that can be taken out of context and made into a negative sound bite. I actually wonder, too, whether it is actually damaging to HRC's campaign. I mean, will that statement sway any undecided voters? And if so, will they be swayed toward Trump? Some might actually read the article explaining the context and find that they agree with it. Some might not read the article and think it means that HRC does not blindly support Obamacare, which they might see as a good thing. The people most likely to be concerned about it are people who support Obamacare, and they are not likely to turn to Trump.

This is yet another story of Clinton's campaign making an alleged misstep in which there's no there there.
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Old 06 October 2016, 05:14 PM
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I saw both comments as favorable.
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Old 07 October 2016, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan View Post
Eh, literally anything the Clintons say is wrong somehow. There's an insane standard applied to Hillary that is just not applied to Trump and was not applied to her male opponents. The "basket of deplorables" is proof of that - Trump can spew racist invective all day and get pass after pass after pass, but oh that Hillary dared to call out his supporters?! We'd better focus on that!
I don't really have anything meaningful to add, except to say, "This. So very this."

Tired of the media trying to pretend that Trump and Hillary Clinton are two sides of the same coin. One is a charlatan, a conman, who has never worked in government a day in his life, and spews racist/sexist invective from the moment he gets up to the moment he goes to sleep.

Hillary, whatever her faults, has decades worth of experience in the political field, and calling people who support Donald Trump's racist/sexist diarrhea of the mouth, deplorable, is in no way equivalent to Trump's racist/sexist diarrhea of the mouth.

Though wasn't too surprised by the overreactions to it. Experience has taught me that Trump and others who go around loudly talking about how they're not afraid to tell it like it is or be politically incorrect, tend to be the most thin-skinned mothereffers when it comes to criticism.
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Old 07 October 2016, 02:32 AM
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It's just the same racist bullcrap they've been pelting Obama with over the past 9 years. Only this time it's sexist. They'll deny it up and down. Many probably aren't aware. But ignorance is no excuse and there's no excuse for ignorance. One Trump supporter actually said to me "I think Obama was given a break because he was black" and "Do you really think that whole Birther thing was racist?" With Hillary it's going to be even worse because they've had 30 or more years to hone the craft of being utterly sexist toward one specific person and denying it at the same time.

Like Pence in the debate talking about "broad-shouldered" crap. WTF. These are not Freudian slips, people. That's the real deal.
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Old 07 October 2016, 04:35 PM
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Being a white man it is harder to judge, but I'd say sexism is often times much stronger and more accepted than racism. For example, I can't imagine "10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Black Person" being taken as business as usual as much as the real one was. Very few (if any) people today who would comment on how a black victim of a hate crime deserved it because they were in the wrong neighborhood or were dressing "too black". It was decades after the right to vote could not be restricted for race that it couldn't be restricted on gender.

ETA: Of course, this isn't saying that being black is easy. For example, there are very few cases of Driving While Female.
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Old 07 October 2016, 05:56 PM
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I beg to differ on the dressing too black part. For some people, apparently wearing a hoodie is an invitation to being shot. Lots of black men are conscious of how they will be/are perceived if they go out in jeans and a sweatshirt.

I don't think we really need to compare. There's plenty of racism and sexism. A lot more still needs to be done on both fronts (and in other areas of bigotry).
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Old 08 October 2016, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
Very few (if any) people today who would comment on how a black victim of a hate crime deserved it because they were in the wrong neighborhood or were dressing "too black".
Really? Because it sounds very much like the things that were said after Trayvon Martin was shot.
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