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  #81  
Old 24 September 2018, 04:36 PM
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(Jumping off from Don Enrico's post)

It's also very common among populations where blond hair occurs more frequently for people to artificially make their hair blond. I'm not sure what culture she's being thought or assumed to be from, or what she is supposed to be appropriating.
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  #82  
Old 24 September 2018, 06:39 PM
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My hair was blonde as a child, but has long-since darkened to brown. Does that mean I've been culturally "dis-appropriated"?
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  #83  
Old 25 September 2018, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusenkyo no Pikachu View Post
The worst part of the actual event was when she threw down the racquet.

She did not jump up and down like a crazed ape going “ooga booga”.
which cartoon has her going "ooga booga"? or are you trying to make something out of nothing?

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Originally Posted by ASL View Post
My hair was blonde as a child, but has long-since darkened to brown. Does that mean I've been culturally "dis-appropriated"?
Cultural appropriation is just a stupid term invented to give SJWs something else to whine about.
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  #84  
Old 25 September 2018, 03:25 PM
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And social justice warrior is a term invented by bigots, misogynists, etc who want to keep being bigots, misogynists, etc.

Note that I am not saying you are one of the above, but merely pointing out that one should not throw stones at a phrase when living in a glass house made of a phrase that was assigned to a group by people who oppose that group.
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  #85  
Old 25 September 2018, 06:14 PM
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It's hard to argue against a term by using it in a way that shows your ignorance of the term, the concept behind it, and the particulars of the situation.

Damien, I understand you were trying to make a dig at cultural appropriation by applying it in a sort of "backwards" way. (Which is a common tactic.) But it really makes no sense the way you've tried. Again, what culture do you think she's from? What do you think she's appropriating, and from what culture?
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  #86  
Old 26 September 2018, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenYus234 View Post
And social justice warrior is a term invented by bigots, misogynists, etc who want to keep being bigots, misogynists, etc.
Sorry GenYus234. That’s just not so.

Quote:
More than 20 years ago, the term was generally used as a neutral or even complimentary describer. Here’s a clip from a 1991 write-up of a Montreal jazz festival, from the Montreal Gazette:

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[Quebec guitarist Rene] Lussier will present the world premiere of his ambitious Quebecois mood piece Le Tresor de la Langue, which juxtaposes the spoken word — including sound bites from Charles de Gaulle and Quebec nationalist and social-justice warrior Michel Chartrand — with new- music noodlings.
“All of the examples I’ve seen until quite recently are lionizing the person,” Katherine Martin, the head of U.S. dictionaries at the Oxford University Press, said in an interview last month. Because “Social Justice Warrior” is currently only in Oxford Dictionaries — and not in the Oxford English Dictionary itself — lexicographers there haven’t done a full search for its earliest citation. But a cursory search for the phrase turns up several positive uses, spanning from the early ’90s through the early ’00s.
However, I have no idea what damian is getting at here. How is blonde hair cultural appropriation? How is that pose not the way I described it?

Is he a troll?
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  #87  
Old 26 September 2018, 06:07 AM
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I see no reason to think damian is a troll. He is, in my frank opinion some combination of being misinformed, irrational, and lacking in fair-mindedness, but I don't believe he is insincere about his opinion or deliberately trying to provoke anyone.
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  #88  
Old 26 September 2018, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Sabre View Post
I see no reason to think damian is a troll. He is, in my frank opinion some combination of being misinformed, irrational, and lacking in fair-mindedness, but I don't believe he is insincere about his opinion or deliberately trying to provoke anyone.
I’ve trolled with a sincere opinion before. Or at least attempted to. (Not here though.)
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  #89  
Old 26 September 2018, 07:24 AM
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It should be stated that the reason why that cartoon is racist is because it has Williams drawn to resemble an ape, and the black person to ape comparison has racist connotations, on account of being used to rationalize and justify slavery and other human rights abuses against black people.

Also, even though I don't like assuming bad intentions, I think it would be good to voice some level of skepticism that the mindset behind the cartoon was 'this pro athlete needs to be called out for her bad behavior' and not 'look how uncivil this n***** is' and even if it was, I'd still be inclined to think that racist sentiments were involved in the underlying motivation as one sign of bigotry against a group is to treat any sort of bad behavior, or wrongness on the part of a member of that group disproportionately in terms of how big and serious a problem it is. Of course I will re-evaluate my position, if one can prove that cartoonist has a non-racially biased pattern of calling out athletes or celebrities in general, in this manner. Not that I particularly care whether or not this cartoonist is a racist.
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  #90  
Old 26 September 2018, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusenkyo no Pikachu View Post
However, I have no idea what damian is getting at here. How is blonde hair cultural appropriation? How is that pose not the way I described it?

Is he a troll?
I was creating an equally ridiculous example of this made-up complaint of "cultural appropriation". That's a silly term that SJWs have created to try to male white people feel ashamed of being white. I have no reason to be proud or ashamed of my race, as I can only feel pride or shame about what I have done. To blame or praise me for the actions of others that share a skin tone is, what's the word.....racist?
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  #91  
Old 26 September 2018, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Sabre View Post
It should be stated that the reason why that cartoon is racist is because it has Williams drawn to resemble an ape
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I don't think the cartoon makes her look like an ape. I think she is drawn as an unflattering caricature of Serena Williams throwing a tantrum.
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Originally Posted by Jusenkyo no Pikachu View Post
Is he a troll?
Do you dismiss everyone that disagrees with you as a troll? Way to keep an open mind.
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  #92  
Old 26 September 2018, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
To blame or praise me for the actions of others that share a skin tone is, what's the word.....racist?
Depends on your definition of racism. An alternative explanation would tend to limit its applicability to systemic issues which, in historically white-dominated countries such as yours and mine, would necessarily mean that it's not possible to be "racist" against whites, but rather bigoted. To your point, you could, under such a system, be considered somewhat racist if you continued to endorse or support views traditionally (and still) used to marginalize and suppress minorities (or historically disadvantaged majorities, even, such as in places like South Africa), even if you sincerely held to a belief that all people are born equal and should remain so before the law.
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  #93  
Old 26 September 2018, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
That's a silly term that SJWs have created to try to male white people feel ashamed of being white.
Oh, nonsense.

If you insist on feeling shame whenever somebody points out to you that yours is not the only possible perspective in the world, that's your problem.
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  #94  
Old 26 September 2018, 04:33 PM
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As a general principle, if people treat something like a problem, one should assume that they believe it to be a problem, whether they have a clear understanding of why it's a problem or they've only internalized the idea that it is a problem but haven't thought through why it is. 'These people are only treating this like a problem because they are looking for something to whine about/an excuse to shame' are not rational views.
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  #95  
Old 26 September 2018, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
I was creating an equally ridiculous example of this made-up complaint of "cultural appropriation". That's a silly term that SJWs have created to try to male white people feel ashamed of being white. I have no reason to be proud or ashamed of my race, as I can only feel pride or shame about what I have done. To blame or praise me for the actions of others that share a skin tone is, what's the word.....racist?
Maybe if I quote you, you'll answer? What culture do you think Osaka is from? What is she appropriating, and from what culture?

There's a difference between applying the term to a situation you know others will disagree with, to make a point, and applying it in a totally nonsensical way that shows you either don't understand the term or concept at all, or have your facts wrong. (Or both).
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  #96  
Old 27 September 2018, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damian View Post
I was creating an equally ridiculous example of this made-up complaint of "cultural appropriation".
She moved to America at the age of 3. Whose culture was she “appropriating”?

Last edited by Jusenkyo no Pikachu; 27 September 2018 at 10:57 AM.
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  #97  
Old 27 September 2018, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusenkyo no Pikachu View Post
She moved to America at the age of 3. Whose culture was she “appropriating”?
I think if Damian is starting with the premise that accusations of cultural appropriation are made by SJWs who just want to whine about everything and anything then he possibly believes that everything and anything can be classed as cultural appropriation.

Therefore his satirical example of the blonde ponytail is equally as valid to him as his geisha example and it wouldn't make a difference that blonde hair isn't cultural or that she's culturally American.

I can't help but wonder, though, why he believes that most 'whiners' are from marginalised cultures. What is it about being, say, Native American that makes people want to whine for no good reason, I wonder?
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  #98  
Old 27 September 2018, 02:30 PM
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I have noticed that a high percentage of people who accuse others of whining seem to me to be whining themselves.

(Of course, I've just put myself at risk of sounding like I'm whining about that . . . )
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  #99  
Old 27 September 2018, 06:17 PM
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Narcissists, IME, love to call other people selfish; it may be projection, but it may also be that they define selfishness as the failure to consistently accommodate, cater to and prioritize the narcissist's interests. They don't recognize their own behavior as selfishness. Similar thing with whining, maybe.
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  #100  
Old 27 September 2018, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
Narcissists, IME, love to call other people selfish; it may be projection, but it may also be that they define selfishness as the failure to consistently accommodate, cater to and prioritize the narcissist's interests. They don't recognize their own behavior as selfishness. Similar thing with whining, maybe.
I think 'whining' universally refers to 'complaining about things I don't think are worth complaining about'.

The problem lies with the subjectivity of what is and isn't worth complaining about.

People rarely think of themselves as whiners, because people tend to believe that their own issues are real issues.
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