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  #21  
Old 19 May 2018, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLegends101 View Post
Won't fire codes dictate a minimum number of doors, if for nothing else, fire exits. Yes, I understand emergency exits don't have to be open from the outside.

Also, consider the student enrollment at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, FL was over 3000.

That school would have an interesting situation if all 3000 students have to enter through entry.
All I thought was "one door. In tornado country. Um no."
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  #22  
Old 19 May 2018, 03:46 PM
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I don't understand why tornadoes makes that idea worse.
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  #23  
Old 19 May 2018, 04:59 PM
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Presumably because it makes dangerous bottlenecks in a place that regularly has weather-related emergencies.
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  #24  
Old 19 May 2018, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLegends101 View Post

That school would have an interesting situation if all 3000 students have to enter through entry.
Obviously a word is missing:


That school would have an interesting situation if all 3000 students have to enter through one entry.

I guess one entry could work as long as there were sufficient exits, but consider the bottlenecks of entry with only one door.
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  #25  
Old 19 May 2018, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitap View Post
All I thought was "one door. In tornado country. Um no."

Yep, I meant one entry door. But you got the idea. Fire code and building code requirements for emergency exits.
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  #26  
Old 19 May 2018, 05:13 PM
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Doesn't have to be weather related, there was a tragedy in Northern Quebec when fire broke out in a rec centre type place and many died because there was a bottleneck at one of the exits - IIRC someone on crutches fell and blocked the exit (could be remembering this wrong) anyway the point is one exit is RIDICULOUS, and especially so if the gunman is standing in that doorway.
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  #27  
Old 19 May 2018, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
Presumably because it makes dangerous bottlenecks in a place that regularly has weather-related emergencies.
Schools don't generally evacuate for tornado. They shelter in place. That's why I asked the question. Tornadoes would seem to be the one emergency where having one door wouldn't be so much of an issue.
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  #28  
Old 19 May 2018, 07:19 PM
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It would if there were a bunch of people still outside when the alarm sounded.
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  #29  
Old 20 May 2018, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLegends101 View Post
Won't fire codes dictate a minimum number of doors, if for nothing else, fire exits. Yes, I understand emergency exits don't have to be open from the outside.
The high school I went to in America had a building with only one exit, but in this case weíre talking a high school with more than one building. The main building, however, had rooms with multiple exits (and other buildings had only external entry)
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  #30  
Old 20 May 2018, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter View Post
It would if there were a bunch of people still outside when the alarm sounded.
Or if they were trying to evacuate after the school got hit by one.
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  #31  
Old 20 May 2018, 11:35 AM
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At least some officials and people in authority are getting equally fed up:

Texas shooting: Houston police chief 'hits rock bottom' on gun reform
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44187718

Quote:
"I know some have strong feelings about gun rights but I want you to know I've hit rock bottom and I am not interested in your views as it pertains to this issue. Please do not post anything about guns aren't the problem and there's little we can do," Chief Acevedo said in his Facebook post.

"This isn't a time for prayers, and study and inaction, it's a time for prayers, action and the asking of God's forgiveness for our inaction (especially the elected officials that ran to the cameras today, acted in a solemn manner, called for prayers, and will once again do absolutely nothing)," he added.
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  #32  
Old 20 May 2018, 02:14 PM
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http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...519-story.html

Quote:
One of Pagourtzis' classmates who died in the attack, Shana Fisher, "had 4 months of problems from this boy," her mother, Sadie Rodriguez, wrote in a private message to the Los Angeles Times on Facebook. "He kept making advances on her and she repeatedly told him no."
Yet another example in which the problem may not be a diagnosable condition, but an inability to consider women as equal humans who are entitled to say no.

(Maybe that ought to be a diagnosable condition; but the society in general doesn't seem to consider it to be one.)
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  #33  
Old 20 May 2018, 03:28 PM
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Meanwhile, authorities have been reporting that there were no "red flags" about the shooter.
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  #34  
Old 20 May 2018, 03:59 PM
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Yeah, I noticed that, crocoduck_hunter.

Harassing women isn't a red flag, apparently; it's just normal.

-- I hope they only mean that it hadn't been reported; although of course one reason such things don't get reported is that the victims often don't expect to be taken seriously, or even themselves think that it's normal.
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  #35  
Old 20 May 2018, 04:44 PM
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I guess neither were his social media posts.

"Born to Kill" T-shirt. Photos with guns.

Yup. Perfectly normal high school behavior.

~Psihala
(*Nothing to see here.)
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  #36  
Old 20 May 2018, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psihala View Post
Perfectly normal high school behavior.
Not to comment on you specifically, but I have 2 comments:

- some of the officials saying that they did not observe "red flags" have very limited areas within which they can explore. Police, for example, do not monitor all social media, only when it is brought to their attention as part of a complaint or investigation. Imagine the privacy complaints there would be if the police were able to monitor all social media. So, if this horrible person had no interractions with the police, you'd expect no "red flags" from the police.

- And, given what I see about US high schools, and what is on the media, those posts, and love of guns is perfectly normal American high school behaviour. You have people praising young women of college, high school and older ages for shoving pistols in their belts, wearing guns to prom, bringing firearms with them to the store. Let alone what American boys are being praised to do. So, aggressive social media posts, Born to Kill t-shirts (from Full Metal Jacket, I would expect) and dozens of photos with guns is perfectly normal for America.

Your country is too far down the slippery slope to save, I suspect. Because of the lax concern for weapons and highly charged identity politics, I fear the US will never recover. People are afraid and will demand more guns because there have been so many of "them" that have had access to guns that they need more to protect themselves, even preemptively.
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  #37  
Old 20 May 2018, 10:50 PM
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The other thing about "reported" is, reported to whom? What was meant to have been reported? And what were those people (to whom the thing that might have been reported might have been reported to) supposed to have done about it?

"Reported" is a red herring, if you ask me.
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  #38  
Old 20 May 2018, 11:58 PM
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I'm not sure what you mean about "reported" being a red herring. What I meant was that the people who were saying there were no red flags might not have known about the shooter's previous behavior to at least one young woman in the school, because she might not have reported it to anyone other than, apparently, her mother.

The behavior as the mother described it doesn't sound like anything that could plausibly have been reported to the police. But it sounds as if it could have been reported to teachers, and/or to whatever process (if any) the school has for dealing with bullying and/or sexual harassment between students. Whether it was so reported I have no idea. Whether the school has any setup for dealing with such things I also have no idea; though I think that they ought to.

Part of the point I was trying to make is exactly that such behavior isn't generally seen as a red flag. And it ought to be -- not that everybody who pulls this crap, especially in their teens, is going to start shooting; but that it's a warning sign of quite possibly further trouble of some sort coming up in the future, especially if it's allowed to continue as if it should be considered normal.

-- UEL, the USA's been through worse. I really wouldn't write us off just yet.
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  #39  
Old 21 May 2018, 12:25 AM
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Yes, indeed, but would any of that have meant that somebody would have stopped the guy from having a gun? As I understand US gun control, all of it seems to be entirely irrelevant. (Especially as I gather he just took his dad's guns anyway). And without the guns, I don't think you'd have to worry about whether or not you'd reported the bloke that had been bothering your daughter to the correct authorities in order to make sure that he couldn't kill lots of people later...

So, as I said, I stick by the "reporting" bit being a red herring.
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  #40  
Old 21 May 2018, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post
Yeah, I noticed that, crocoduck_hunter.

Harassing women isn't a red flag, apparently; it's just normal.
Pretty much, Iím afraid. Most of these mass shooters will invariably turn out to have domestic violence charges on their record. Battered spouses, girlfriends, and kids are the canaries in the coal mine when it comes to these jerkwads. The latest asshole mass shooter may not have those kind of charges on his record, but with the harassment complaints thatís not much of an accomplishment.

From the looks of things, this asshole bears sins of the same sense of overentitlement of most mass shooters. Basically, if you read any of their writings or whatever they left behind, their grievances can be summed up as, ďI havenít been given everything that is rightfully mine, so Iím going to throw a lead-filled temper tantrum. Then theyíll be sorry.Ē

All that, combined with a culture that conditions them to see women as a reward, and itís not too surprising that they have a history of abuse or harassment of women. Itís even more infuriating with all the tacit or outward blame laid at the feet of women for all this. Apparently, itís the duty of women everywhere to rehabilitate assholes with our vaginas, in hopes that they wonít kill everyone. Yet at the same time, the common response to an abused spouse is, ďWhy didnít they leave?!Ē
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